AUS-8 vs AUS-8A

3Guardsmen said:
I find it strange that Aichi would add .20 % carbon to AUS-8 and still call it AUS-8. I would think they'd opt to use another name, like AUS-12, since AUS-10 is already taken.

Regards,
3G
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Maybe, but there's also the Tungsten and Moly in there, and the carbon doesn't quite reach the level in AUS-10.
 
DocNightfall said:
Maybe, but there's also the Tungsten and Moly in there, and the carbon doesn't quite reach the level in AUS-10.
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I've been told that AUS-8 with Tungsten added is called AUS-8W, and AUS-8, listed simply as AUS-8, had Moly in it from the get go.
 
Well I'll be! That's a new one on me and now I know why my old Voyager was and stayed so incredibly sharp!
 
DocNightfall said:
I stumbled upon a reference written by a knife maker named Terry Primos that says the AUS-8 and 8A are two different compositions and not interchangeable. AUS-8A seems to be an intermediate grade between AUS-8 and AUS-10. 8A has more carbon and has molybdenum and tungsten added.
http://www.knifeseek.com/workshop/tut_composition_primos.shtml

An article that also makes a distinction between the two steels.
http://www.gunblast.com/Fryxell_KnifeSteels.htm

Here's a Chinese forum thread with some text in Polish (huh?) that gives compositions of AUS-8 and 8A as well as some guy saying that AUS-8 is subjectively equivalent to 440A/B, and AUS-8A is equivalent to ATS-34.
http://www.knifriend.com/viewthread.php?tid=28451&page=3

I'll copy the two compositions here--

AUS8
C =0.75
Mn=1.0
Si=1.0
Cr=14.5
Ni=0.49
Mo=n/a
V =0.25
W =n/a

AUS8A
C =0.90-1.0
Mn=1.0
Si=1.0
Cr=14.0
Ni=0.50
Mo=0.10-0.30
V =0.10-0.20
W =0.40

Can anyone verify this with the manufacturer of these steels? Has anyone here used both 8 and 8A and noticed any difference in performance?
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The Carbon percentage that your source lists as "AUS8A" is actually that of AUS10, which is good stuff, by the way.

I never trust alloy equivalencies shown on Chinese threads. "Some guy" ? This is not something upon which to base anything at all. Lots of folks cite misinformation.

I have never read any comment by Sal Glesar or on the Benchmade web site or by even Cliff Stamp, that would cause me to think that AUS8 and AUS8A are not just different names for the same alloy. (Cliff Stamp is somewhat abrupt. But he is also quite knowledgeable about steels. Sal Glessar is a gentleman and a legend and is even more knowledgeable.)

You can search the Spyderco web site and see that Sal only talks about AUS8. He never differentiates between AUS8 and AUS8A.
 
Peter Parker said:
Sal would be the one that could clear it up for sure. He really knows the Japan steels!
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Sal already has cleared it up, but apparently that's not quite enough to satisfy the OP. See the links in my posts.

Peter Parker said:
Well I'll be! That's a new one on me and now I know why my old Voyager was and stayed so incredibly sharp!
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For the same reason any knife made with Aichi AUS-8 (8A) gets and stays so sharp. 8A is a good steel!

Regards,
3G
 
If anything this is a thought provoking issue and an opportunity to learn. 3Guardsmen, I noticed that you did not refer too much to A.G. Russel’s encyclopedia. Afraid that if you miss quote him he’ll post here and want to know who it was, so he can yell at you again. Like that time when quoting him on the Wharncliff. :D You gave me a link to his site and I’ve been reading that encyclopedia ever since. Good to see ya and let’s get to the bottom of this AUS8 deal. Then again, Sal & Cliff say it’s the same thing. I trust them booth.

DocNightfall, it’s worthy of discussion and thanks for bringing it up.:thumbup:
C1
 
Condition 1 said:
3Guardsmen, I noticed that you did not refer too much to A.G. Russel’s encyclopedia. Afraid that if you miss quote him he’ll post here and want to know who it was, so he can yell at you again. Like that time when quoting him on the Wharncliff. :D
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Yes my friend, that was indeed an experience!:D However, it wasn't the first time Mr. Russell has corrected me.;) I'm still learning.....Long process!

Regards,
3G
 
I concur 3Guardsmen! I still have great respect for AUS-8, and it's still one of my favorite steels!
 
Condition 1 said:
If anything this is a thought provoking issue and an opportunity to learn. 3Guardsmen, I noticed that you did not refer too much to A.G. Russel’s encyclopedia. Afraid that if you miss quote him he’ll post here and want to know who it was, so he can yell at you again. Like that time when quoting him on the Wharncliff. :D You gave me a link to his site and I’ve been reading that encyclopedia ever since. Good to see ya and let’s get to the bottom of this AUS8 deal. Then again, Sal & Cliff say it’s the same thing. I trust them booth.

DocNightfall, it’s worthy of discussion and thanks for bringing it up.:thumbup:
C1
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HOW DARE YOU IMPLY THAT I HAVE EVER YELLED AT ANYONE, i will have you know that I am a person of calm and even disposition. all joking aside I do not remember jumping on some one over a mistake. If I did I am most sincerely sorry.

After at least 30 years of useing AUS-8 and 8-A I have never known there to be a difference. I do not think that there is any question that Sal and Cliff are correct.
 
Neither have I. But it's still curious that there are some blades out there that are clearly labeled as AUS-8A instead of 8A or AUS-8.

With steel designations, I know that sometimes a single appended letter can make a significant difference.

A friend of mine has emailed Cold Steel to look into it. They are one of the companies that have been labeling their products as AUS-8A. I'll keep you guys posted.
 
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A. G. Russell said:
HOW DARE YOU IMPLY THAT I HAVE EVER YELLED AT ANYONE, i will have you know that I am a person of calm and even disposition. all joking aside I do not remember jumping on some one over a mistake. If I did I am most sincerely sorry.
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Actually Mr. Russell I was exaggerating a bit knowing that 3Guardsmen would remember the incident. No you did not yell at anyone, I was just ribbing him. Although, I think I just got yelled at. :)
I’m honored.
After at least 30 years of useing AUS-8 and 8-A I have never known there to be a difference. I do not think that there is any question that Sal and Cliff are correct.
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That settles that.
C1
 
Thanks for weighing in on this, everyone.

My friend has relayed Cold Steel's email to me. It was a good idea to get Cold Steel's take on this particularly because 8A and AUS-8 are never mentioned in their product descriptions. Only AUS-8A. So if there was a deliberate effort to avoid using the other two names because they referred to some other lower grade of steel, then they would certainly have something to say about it.

They say that all three names (8A, AUS-8 and AUS-8A) refer to the same steel.

With Mr Talmadge, Mr. Stamp, Spyderco, AG Russell and Cold Steel all singing the same tune, the weight of evidence towards that fact is now overwhelming.
 
Condition 1 said:
Actually Mr. Russell I was exaggerating a bit knowing that 3Guardsmen would remember the incident. No you did not yell at anyone, I was just ribbing him. Although, I think I just got yelled at. :)
I’m honored.

That settles that.
C1
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Actually, years ago on the old rec.knives, if I was yelled at I was quick to respond. I learned to not do that and will only do it now as in a joke.
 
I am not a metalurgist and I cannot speak for anyone else.

In our dealings with Seki makers, we generally refer to AUS-8, or for short 8-A. Aichi makes the AUS series of steels that are very good for knife blades. AUS-6, AUS-8 and AUS-10 are the same composition different only in the amount of carbon. Similarly 440A, 440B & 440C are likewise the same with the exception being the amount of carbon.

There is, and we have used, AUS-8W which, as mentioned, has tungsten added.

sal
 
This is indeed interesting.

I've always liked Cold Steel knives and feel they pay a great deal of attention to their steels and their heat treats. I hear people berate 440A all the time, but my CS knives with that steel have proven themselves to be real work horses.

I think CRKT uses standard AUS8. It hasn't been too bad. It used to be that 440C was the norm. Still, I don't recall many knives from twenty years ago that made me want to own them. Not so today.

My fear is that as our economy continues to cave in on itself that knife companies will go to cheaper steels. It's almost inevitable.
 
Confederate posted:
My fear is that as our economy continues to cave in on itself that knife companies will go to cheaper steels. It's almost inevitable.
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Maybe, then again, maybe not.
Competition is even stiffer now when times are bad. Cutting costs on what is probably the least expensive, and most stable cost component of a factory produced knife does not make sense. Blade steel is also one of the factors which can turn-off potential buyers if it is too low a grade.
 
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