AUS10a Steel?

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I don't know about steel composition or tempering,all I know is how a blade performs in my hand. My cold steel voyage in Aus 10 cuts like a laser. It goes tnru 7' tall cardboard boxes,twisted sheet plastic and heavy fiber straps fast and clean. It seems to keep its edge much better then the older Aus 8 cold steel blades,which weren't bad. I am liking this steel and interested in trying other knives made of it
 
Chronovore said:
That's reasonable. It's the same reason I responded. You're right that these old threads show up in Google search results. This place was a regular resource for me that way long before I became a member. We're doing a public service here. :)

BTW, here is the same chart with 440C added. Note that the graph goes by the maximum values when ranges are given. 440C has more chromium and ideally has more carbon. It also seems to have a pretty wide range in performance based on heat treatment. I've had some decent knives in 440C over the years. Lately, I've only had 440C in low-tier budget knives like the QSP Parrot where it performs more like 8Cr13Mov.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=AUS-8,AUS10,VG-10, 440c&ni=4005,875,4001,&hrn=1&gm=0

I hope you'll post back with your experiences on the new knife in AUS-10.
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Thanks for posting the chemical composition chart comparison, as 440C has that much more Cr it should in theory create more chromium carbides, but AUS-10 has V in the matrix as well, so it should have some vanadium carbides in there with the chromium carbides. I think AUS-10 might have the ability to reach higher wear and retention values, but probably not have higher HRC. As the Vanadium content is not very high I doubt it will be overwhelmingly higher though. You can get some pretty good 440C.
I will post my opinion of AUS-10 once the knife arrives and I do soem cutting and sharpening with it. I just got an email from the delivery update, and it will be here 20 hours, they sent it on 48 hour delivery instead of 24 hour for some reason, nevermind. Oh and don't knife shame me on my counterpoint XL gentlemans folder, I couldn't resist its charm :)
 
We have a set of Victorinox Fibrox kitchen knives that work very well and didn't break the bank. I don't know the steel type but they hold a great edge for kitchen tasks. I am more concerned about how they feel in the hand than I am about what kind of steel they are made of. The Fibrox knives are commercial quality used in many restaurants, etc.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/food/a33... carbon steel and high-carbon stainless steel.
 
A friend of mine asked me for a recommendation for a kitchen knife. It is just his wife and himself, kids grown and gone so I recommended a Victorinox and he emailed back it was working out great for them. In post #8, bralexander talks about his wife, a prep cook, and her experience with a AUS10A knife and how well it is working for her. She probably does more cutting in a week than most of us do in a year, so I would consider her experience highly if in the market for a new kitchen knife. As it is I get along just fine with an old carbon steel 10" (now about 9 1/2") Dexter Chef's knife (model 48910) for cutting up hard items like rutabagas, and I use a Finnish made copy of a Japanese kitchen knife (KNIVO) with a 7" Teflon coated blade of 80CrV2 (HRC 58) for most other jobs, along with a Murray Carter paring knife. Would they work for a prep Chef? Probably not but I am not doing that much cooking or cutting. I expect that most people using a well made kitchen knife would not be able to tell some big difference from a AUS10A, VG10, CMP 154 knife given a good heat treat and edge geometry. John
 
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Londinium Armoury said:
The only reason I brought the thread back was to ammend the false information in the closing post of the thread.
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I posted no false information. Aus6. Aus8, Aus10 are called 6A, 8A, 10A in Japan and have been since the 1980s when I started paying attention. Calling them by their American designation is a new practice likely influenced by the export market. In marketing practice, Japanese knife makers often simply call all knives in this category "Molybendum Vanadium".

Aichi - AUS10, Aichi - AUS-10, Aichi - AUS-10A, Aichi - 10A, Aichi - A10
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/Aichi/aus10a.shtml

"AUS-10 steel is a stainless steel. It is also known as AUS-10A steel or for short simply 10A steel. This steel is made by Aichi Foundry situated in Japan and one of the best product among the AUS series of steel."
https://japaneseknifereviews.com/04/2018/japanese-steel-cutlery/

"AUS-6 / AUS-8 / AUS-10 (also 6A / 8A / 10A)
These grades of Japanese stainless are comparable to 440A (AUS-6), 440B (AUS-8), and 44C (AUS-10). AUS-6 is softer but tougher than ATS-34. "
https://www.thoughtco.com/knife-steel-grades-2340185

"国産のステンレス鋼は意外にも沢山あって、６Ａ　８Ａ　１０Ａなどがあります。"
Translation: There are many domestically produced Stainless steels such as 6A 8A 10A"
Suisin website:
https://www.suisin.co.jp/Japanese/tokusyu/200403g/tokutoku200403g.htm

From G. Sakai site:
"Stainless steel made of Aichi Steel. It has a composition property close to 440B. It is widely used in factory production as a steel material that is cheap to sharpen and easy to handle.
It is a component close to 6A⇒440A 8A⇒440B."

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=https://www.gsakai.co.jp/jp/blade-steel-material.html
 
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Chronovore said:
You're right that these old threads show up in Google search results. This place was a regular resource for me that way long before I became a member. We're doing a public service here. :)
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I became a member once I discovered the depth and breadth of the archives. No other place like this on the net. I found this when looking for info on a knife purchase and as mentioned, a couple of BF threads popped up.

And once again, a thread like this couldn't be more timely. I am looking hard at the more affordable line of some of the Cold Steel offerings of models I have been very interested in, and they use AUS10. If AUS10 winds up to be a good steel on my work knives I might just keep the less expensive offering and be done with it. I can buy the AUS10 version of the 4 MAX for about $110, and the same knife with G10 scales (instead of grivory) and S35 is about $280. Quite a savings...

I might not buy the more expensive model... I have plenty of large work knives! So I need just a little push to buy a new knife every once and a while and the good reports on AUS10 may just do the trick. I haven't found the super steels to be cost effective performers on a construction site.

This updated thread has full of great info on AUS10. A new CS may be on the way this weekend! Thanks to all!

Robert
 
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I have a Cold Steel XL Voyager folder in AUS-10A. It hasn't rusted at all in 2 years. It also holds a great edge. It's still hair shaving sharp, despite carrying everyday. I can't speak to how strong it is, or how easy it is to sharpen, as I don't abuse it, and I haven't had to sharpen it yet. From what I've seen, AUS-10A is a pretty good stainless steel for any kind of knife. I'm not sure it's worth paying $200-$300 more for one of the "super steels".
 
DDDYLN said:
I have a Cold Steel XL Voyager folder in AUS-10A. It hasn't rusted at all in 2 years. It also holds a great edge. It's still hair shaving sharp, despite carrying everyday. I can't speak to how strong it is, or how easy it is to sharpen, as I don't abuse it, and I haven't had to sharpen it yet. From what I've seen, AUS-10A is a pretty good stainless steel for any kind of knife. I'm not sure it's worth paying $200-$300 more for one of the "super steels".
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I don't know the exact values but I suspect AUS-10 is probably down around XHP on corrosion resistance. Whether those or a less stainless steel like D2, whether or not it matters is totally dependent on the environment. For some people, D2 with minimal maintenance will never appreciably rust. For others, spotting will be a fact of life. One factor that keeps coming up is sweat.

Some people sweat more than others and some people have more corrosive sweat. For instance, I'm fine with D2 three seasons out of the year. Once it is summer and we're talking about 90F and 90% humidity, sweat is a reality for me. My pockets can remain slightly damp in that kind of weather. Forget AUS-10. I'll get the occasional spot on AUS-8. Using Larrin's chart, the magic resistance number for me is 7.5. Steels with that rating and above have never rusted on me.

A higher hedge hasn't been necessary but I do like having it. For budget steels, I prefer 14C28N, N690, and 9Cr18Mov. They provide enough edge to last and have a nice high hedge against rust.
 
Well, it's crazy that it was four years ago that I commented on this thread! My wife no longer cuts fruits and veggies all day, everyday. However we now use those inexpensive AUS10 blades as our kitchen knives. They are still going strong and I would still highly recommend them. I have sharpened them dozens of times each now, and haven't encountered a single problem. Probably one of the best value kitchen items we have ever bought, right below our air fryer(s), but that's another thread altogether :D
-Bruce
 
Chronovore said:
I don't know the exact values but I suspect AUS-10 is probably down around XHP on corrosion resistance. Whether those or a less stainless steel like D2, whether or not it matters is totally dependent on the environment. For some people, D2 with minimal maintenance will never appreciably rust. For others, spotting will be a fact of life. One factor that keeps coming up is sweat.

Some people sweat more than others and some people have more corrosive sweat. For instance, I'm fine with D2 three seasons out of the year. Once it is summer and we're talking about 90F and 90% humidity, sweat is a reality for me. My pockets can remain slightly damp in that kind of weather. Forget AUS-10. I'll get the occasional spot on AUS-8. Using Larrin's chart, the magic resistance number for me is 7.5. Steels with that rating and above have never rusted on me.

A higher hedge hasn't been necessary but I do like having it. For budget steels, I prefer 14C28N, N690, and 9Cr18Mov. They provide enough edge to last and have a nice high hedge against rust.
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I know exactly what you mean. Due to thyroid disease, and some other health problems, I sweat profusely. I carry 9mm pistols daily. Whenever I get home, my pistol is drenched with sweat, and I have to wipe it off, and let it air dry. Even though I live in one of the most humid areas of the US, my condo is very dry, so I don't have too many problems with my knives or firearms. That said, I try to oil my carbon steel knives at least once every 2 months.
 
In many cases choice of steel for me also comes down to who is choosing to use that steel. The manufacturers choosing to use AUS-10 tend to be ones where I trust their heat treatments and quality control. VG-10 and 154CM are similar steels, but I'll have a harder look at where they're made and by whom.

Similarly, D2 can be a bit of a turnoff, unless it's something like the Benchmade Redoubt (CPM-D2) or a nice (semi) custom, because almost every budget knife seems to be made from D2 these days. It's just like 440C. If Buck makes it, then good, but if someone else uses it I have to think about it.
 
The Grendels said:
In many cases choice of steel for me also comes down to who is choosing to use that steel. The manufacturers choosing to use AUS-10 tend to be ones where I trust their heat treatments and quality control. VG-10 and 154CM are similar steels, but I'll have a harder look at where they're made and by whom.

Similarly, D2 can be a bit of a turnoff, unless it's something like the Benchmade Redoubt (CPM-D2) or a nice (semi) custom, because almost every budget knife seems to be made from D2 these days. It's just like 440C. If Buck makes it, then good, but if someone else uses it I have to think about it.
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Ironically, today was the first time I actually used my Cold Steel XL Voyager. I used it to carve up a pumpkin, because my daughter wanted to see it. I just cleaned and dried it. After it was dry, I did the arm hair test. It still cut the hairs, but it definitely dulled a little after slicing up the pumpkin. At some point, I'm going to have to bring out my Work Sharp, and see how difficult it is to get it shaving sharp again.
 
AUS-10 and VG10 are pretty much in the same class. VG10 has more alloying elements, so it will likely hold an edge better. AUS10, like I mentioned on the other posts, might be more tough with its fewer elements. Neither has big enough difference to stand out well in my opinion. Corrosion resistance wise, AUS-10 should still be better than XHP. XHP has 60% more carbon, but less than 15% more Cr, so the C to Cr ratio is worse.

On an unrelated note, how is N690 budget steel, but VG10 and 154cm aren't? Maybe China needs to throw more cheap VG10 to the market.
 
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I appreciate your insight. I've been wondering why VG10 is so much more expensive than AUS-10A. I actually prefer toughness over edge retention. I can always sharpen a knife. If it chips or breaks, that's harder to overcome while outdoors.
 
I searched a while last night for a decently thick fixed blade in AUS-10A. I couldn't find one.
 
Back in mid 2010s, Chinese brands like Kizer or Kensept used VG10 for their budget lines, it was considered an upgrade by moving to N690, yet VG10 is never looked at as budget. Again, they are all in the same class of steel with similar performance, the differences are tiny compresses between their stats.

If you look at the Japanese kitchen knives, barring all of the Damascus/laminated/edge pattern (hamon) stuff, the regular AUS-10 blades are slightly more expensive than regular VG10 in average. So I don't think that AUS-10 is cheaper, VG10 is simply easier to mark up the price for certain market. Knife makers care more of what sell well than anything.

AUS-10 is dubbed as common Japanese high carbon stainless, while VG10 is described as Japanese premium stainless steel. You can see the bias.

Edit: There is the VG1 steel, which is VG10 without Co and V, and is mentioned as tougher but less wear resistance than VG10. AUS-10 is in between hese two VG.
 
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Deino said:
Back in mid 2010s, Chinese brands like Kizer or Kensept used VG10 for their budget lines, it was considered upgrade an upgrade moving N690, yet VG10 is never looked at as budget. Again, they are all in the same class of steel with similar performance, the differences are tiny compresses between their stats.

If you look at the Japanese kitchen knives, barring all of the Damascus/laminated/edge pattern (hamon) stuff, the regular AUS-10 blades are slightly more expensive than regular VG10 in average. So I don't think that AUS-10 is cheaper, VG10 is simply easier to mark up the price for certain market. Knife makers care more of what sell well than anything.

AUS-10 is dubbed as common Japanese high carbon stainless, while VG10 is described as Japanese premium stainless steel. You can see the bias.
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I'll disagree on one point. Vg10 has long been a budget steel to knife folks like those around here, at least since early 2000s, 10+ years before the period you mention. The $50 Spyderco Endura/Delica was one of *the* budget knife kings of those days (along with the $60ish 154cm Benchmade Griptilian). You have to go back before that to find when it was considered a premium pocket knife steel, even if it was an upgrade to those 2010 Chinese models.
 
kreole said:
I'll disagree on one point. Vg10 has long been a budget steel to knife folks like those around here, at least since early 2000s, 10+ years before the period you mention. The $50 Spyderco Endura/Delica was one of *the* budget knife kings of those days (along with the $60ish 154cm Benchmade Griptilian). You have to go back before that to find when it was considered a premium pocket knife steel, even if it was an upgrade to those 2010 Chinese models.
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The VG10 as premium is not me thinking it, it is what companies advertise it as. They are mid range rather than budget range for me. So many people only see high end or budget... anything not premium or high quality = budget.

And isn't the Benchmade at 60$ back then was the ones that people claim to have poor performance vs other 154cm? Then Benchmade discontinued all of the 154cm offers, or have them at premium price. I do remember that Spyderco was a quality budget brand at some point. Even with inflation, the price wouldn't make such a difference between then and now. Can you find a Spyderco VG10 at that price range that's not the Ladybug or Dragonfly with their small 2"/5cm blade? Maybe the fact that 154cm was offered at cheap that driven the price of VG10 offer lower for the competition.

Not counting Chinese offers, there are still a few inexpensive option for 154cm and VG10, but those are quite rare nowadays.

Edit: AEB-L, for a long time considered low performance steel or so so steel, but recently with the "high toughness stainless" hype, it makes a comeback... with some premium price slapped onto it. I see no one call it budget anymore.
 
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I've only got one folder in Aus10a -- a Kubey Momentum. I haven't used it enough yet to judge edge retention or toughness, but I can tell you that it took a screaming-sharp edge.

Youtuber Outpost 76 did edge retention testing on Demko AD20.5s with D2 and AUS10a and the AUS10 performed better. FWIW.

 
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