avian flu, Exaggeration or reality?

joeshredd said:
something that might be of interest to you given your posts...

The following link represents one school of thought on the origin of the Spanish Flu... Not neccessarily true, but food for thought...

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html
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My head hurts to think of all that.

There are pros and cons to vaccines and I am still on the fence with that one. Even the science community is split. Goes to show we still know little about all this despite the great gains in science based knowledge.

Thanks for the link, food for thought is right. :eek:

Skam
 
I think we are missing the whole point of the thread.
Bird Flu. You can't hide from it forever. At some point you will likely be exposed.
It only makes since to remove yourself from any direct contact for as long as possibile.
If it makes the jump to humans it might not be deadly, IMO thats the luck of the draw.
Quarantine will have no effect if used. The guards will get sick and remember birds fly! You can't wear a Viral mask 24/7.
Why are they telling us about this now? That is the big question for me.
Does the gov't think they will inspire our confidence in their ability to "take care of us"?<><
 
The outbreak in the Canadian nursing home is now reported a form of Legionaires disease.

I however do not trust any government to tell the truth for fear of panic.

Skam
Legionaires diesease? wasn't that the same "excuse" given in one of the seasons of the show "24"? Great......
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HK2001 said:
The outbreak in the Canadian nursing home is now reported a form of Legionaires disease.

I however do not trust any government to tell the truth for fear of panic.

Skam
Legionaires diesease? wasn't that the same "excuse" given in one of the seasons of the show "24"? Great......
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I cant stand Refer Sutherland so dont watch.

Skam
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Seems to me they set us up via hollyweird and then, :eek: it really happens. Now, how strange and coincidental is that? Almost seems that our lives are scripted and we don't even get a shot at the oscars. :rolleyes:
 
joe,
what was the average life expectancy in 1918? about 60 or so. now many americans live to be over 80. the reason that many of the deaths were in the 20-40 age group was because that was the population distribution at that time. there was no report of what happened to the elderly population that i have been able to find, but there was most likely a huge mortality rate associated with the viral pnemonia that accompanied the 1918 pandemic. there was also a huge number of secondary bacterial pneumonias that developed empyema type infections. the problem was so bad that there was a national empyema board that was established to develop techniques on how to manage the empyema. much of the management strategies for empyema that we use now is directly related to the work of this board. the mortality rates in the viral pulmonary infections will be highest in the weakest hosts, older and with other medical conditions like heart and lung disease, kidney failure, transplant patients on immunosupression, diabetics, all of these populations can expect a much greater mortality rate than healthy young adults.

alex
 
skammer said:
The outbreak in the Canadian nursing home is now reported a form of Legionaires disease.

I however do not trust any government to tell the truth for fear of panic.

Skam
Click to expand...

You know...I once thought Legionnaires was a bunch of hooey. Unfortunately, I came down with it about 5-6 years back. I have sporadic episodes of severe arthritis and was on relatively powerful anti-inflamatory drugs (which suppressed my immune system). Pretty much like a really severe case of pneumonia. Had to go on an IV drip in the hospital for a few days...but obviously pulled through. Pretty much like having an elephant sit on your chest for a week.

I was cultured and it came back legionella. My physician's hypothesis was that I picked it up in a supermarket. He said it's quite common there. Probably picked it up by inhaling the water droplets when they misted the produce. Absent my week immune system...probably would have been nothing. According to him, many AC systems, grocery stores, etc. harbor the stuff.

So, could have been legionella with a bunch of unhealthy, immuno-compromised elders. Quite possible.

I guess the lesson is that there's a lot of nasty stuff like this floating around that can attack you when you're in a weakened position...but may be able to be fought off if you are relatively healthy.

If the bird flu hits...I'd look for the elderly, the young, and the immuno-compromised to be hit the hardest (as they always are in such situations).

Scary, nonethesess.....
 
Don't know much more than what I've read regarding the mortality stats...

But that pandemic also occured before the age of antibiotics... apparently, most people died from secondary complications such as pnumonia, etc...

Anyhow... Every year in my firm they offer flu vaccines... Of the six years I've been here, I only got shots once... and I only missed work due to the flu once.... yup... the same year I got the shot...

So, I guess ultimately, we'll each have our own personal battle should this one ever come up... tell me - how many beds available in your hospital??? If you live in a major metropolitan area, they may need thousands just to care for the ones that probably will make it... Do you think your hospital can handle it? :(
 
What are y'all worried about Avian Flu for anyways??? Y'all out kissin' the fowl??? LOL!!!

Now Dog Flu... Yup, K9 lovers could become the source for the jump from Canine Flu to a Human Transmissable Flu!!!! :eek: And since it is now been found in almost every state in the Union, the next time Phideaux is sitting in your lap licking your face... better check his temp first!





:D
Okay... this was actually written in jest... but it's gotta make ya think?!?!?! :eek:
 
joe,
you bring up a good point, about 15 years ago the federal and state governments decided that there were too many beds available in hospitals, so they went on a rampant decommisioning mission (yes each individual hospital bed is commisioned or certified by medicare and the state board of health). they eliminated as many as 50% of hospital beds in some cities, a cost saving measure. now we are basicallyat 100% occupancy,full all the time. there are just enough beds to handle daily traffic, not many to spare in any of the major cities, certainly no intensive care beds. the same was true with doctor training programs, the government decided that there were too many specialists so they cut back funding for certain residencies, there were just enough training spots as there were graduates from american med schools plus about 10%. again a cost saving measure. now there is a serious shortage of certain specialists which has been brewing but largely ignored by the press and the government, although the doctors have been writing letters for some years. i get 3-5 job offers per day mail and email. the surgery specialties are hit very hard, and the shortages are starting to show up. the nursing shortage is a real powder keg, there are way too many nurses graduating, hard work, and poor pay. the hospitals are squeezed between decreasing medicare payment (5% cut this year alone) and trying to pay their nurses a decent salery. clinton balanced the budget on the backs of the healthcare profession, there is no more blood to squeeze from this rock. all of these cost savings measures will come back to haunt all of us.

alex
 
Whats the kill time on this flu? I was watching a program on it the other day, it didnt mention the kill time as it was more concerned with pandemics in general and the medical response to it. The biggest worry was that there would be insufficient time to develop a drug to fight it, be that direct treatment or immunisation.
What do the econmists think will happen if it does hit? What will the financial implications of lost workers or those unwilling to venture into work for fear of catching it?
If this is as bad and as imminent as it sounds, you better get a copy of Steven Kings 'The Stand' :)
 
NOt sure of the kill time, but it's a flu... it could drastically change with the next mutation..
 
On PBS the other nite was a special on the 1918 Flu... one 'apocryphyl(sp)' story had it that a quartet of women who had been playing bridge together (IIRC)... on the way home two of them got sick and died within hours; I believe the other two got sick and one died within days... won't swear to the 4th, and since my memory is beginning to fade of late, I'd rather y'all check before spreading that.

However, Google "Pandemic Flu of 1918" and you will find all I have refered to excepting watching the PBS documentay. And I belive several of those sites back up most of what has been said in this thread...



Now, just remember to go kiss y'all's pooches and we can get a head start on the next pandemic!!!! LOL!!!! :D ... geeeez, between tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes and massive drought... it can't too far from plague and pestilence... (okay, no biblical references, please!?!? LOL!!!!) :p
 
The 1918 form of the virus was the most virulent ever seen and did kill people within hours, a lot of them drowning in their own fluids as their lungs filled.

As someone with asthma I'm very careful to try no to get sick because I know what it feels like to have that drowning feeling in your lungs. I get the flu shot every year, except last year, and I've never gotten the flu, except last year when I was sick as a dog.

Flu shot won't help with the avian flu anyway because they're at least 1-3 years out on getting the specific strain down. And that's if it doesn't mutate too far from what they're working with this year.

Here is the whole CDC page for it: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/

It includes the Quarantine Executive Order signed by President Bush in April this year. It also includes some facts about 2 people getting the disease from uncooked duck blood, i.e. undercooked meat. And these were wild ducks in Vietnam last year.

If you've got a good doctor who believes in being proactive, get them to give you a Tamiflu prescription now and keep it on hand. Tamiflu MUST be used in the first 48 hours of the onset of symptoms and trust me, in a couple months you won't be able to get any because it'll be flu season and they're stockpiling it for military, government, medical and first-responders. Tamiflu is supposedly the best, Relenza doesn't work as well and I don't know if they've tested Symmetrel or Flumadine yet.

Suzanne Settle
Owner
Bear Mountain Tomahawks
http:www.bmtomahawks.com

Also see: http://www.preparednessnetwork.org/northstar/ And get your Go Kits ready if you live in a stormy area, hurricane or winter.

"Fear conscripts its own armies, takes its own prisoners."
 
here in the states every chick is innoculated,,, or supposed to be any way. you can' control mom and pop farms. the problem is in countries where the median income is $400 to $1000 per year. they simply can't innoculate nor will they destroy the majority of their anual incomb with out one heck of a reason. they simple will go hungry if they do. where does that leave us? traveling humans is the issue we need to deal with , they need innoculation.
 
Temper said:
Whats the kill time on this flu? I was watching a program on it the other day, it didnt mention the kill time as it was more concerned with pandemics in general and the medical response to it. The biggest worry was that there would be insufficient time to develop a drug to fight it, be that direct treatment or immunisation.
What do the econmists think will happen if it does hit? What will the financial implications of lost workers or those unwilling to venture into work for fear of catching it?
If this is as bad and as imminent as it sounds, you better get a copy of Steven Kings 'The Stand' :)
Click to expand...


Actually, the kill ratio is 55%, which is I beleive 10% higher than the 1918 flu.
 
alco141 said:
joe,
you bring up a good point, about 15 years ago the federal and state governments decided that there were too many beds available in hospitals, so they went on a rampant decommisioning mission (yes each individual hospital bed is commisioned or certified by medicare and the state board of health). they eliminated as many as 50% of hospital beds in some cities, a cost saving measure. now we are basicallyat 100% occupancy,full all the time. there are just enough beds to handle daily traffic, not many to spare in any of the major cities, certainly no intensive care beds. the same was true with doctor training programs, the government decided that there were too many specialists so they cut back funding for certain residencies, there were just enough training spots as there were graduates from american med schools plus about 10%. again a cost saving measure. now there is a serious shortage of certain specialists which has been brewing but largely ignored by the press and the government, although the doctors have been writing letters for some years. i get 3-5 job offers per day mail and email. the surgery specialties are hit very hard, and the shortages are starting to show up. the nursing shortage is a real powder keg, there are way too many nurses graduating, hard work, and poor pay. the hospitals are squeezed between decreasing medicare payment (5% cut this year alone) and trying to pay their nurses a decent salery. clinton balanced the budget on the backs of the healthcare profession, there is no more blood to squeeze from this rock. all of these cost savings measures will come back to haunt all of us.

alex
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The hospital I currently work at has replaced many nurses with "PCT's" claiming there is a nursing shortage. They neglect to mention the year that they hired no graduates from the nursing program at the local college. They continue to lay "non-essential" people off. We are always short staffed (lab) and if it gets to the point where we are not then they do not fill any vacated postion when someone quits.

The point to the story - it's a "non-profit" hospital yet the CEO gets at least 800,000 dollar BONUS, (yes that's bonus, in addition to his salery) a year. Not everything can be blamed on Klinton.
 
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