Avoiding the dreaded...BLOCKY HANDLE!

I got to get me one of those Fred.:thumbup:
This is turning out to be a very good thread. Thanks again for all your input.

I just want to make sure that all the tips don't scare new makers. It's not really that complicated but it's like many things. You can read a zillion pages about it but it's when you actually DO IT that all it comes together and that the explanations make more sense.
So you don't even need a blade. Take a block of cheap pine, chuck it in the vise and put all those tips in practice by shaping a handle on the part sticking out.
It'll give you confidence to do the same with that nice block of presentation quality Thuya burl you sold one of your kidney for. ;)
 
Great thread I've noticed I've been doing this is well. Something else for me to work on now :)
 
I'm one to encourage plowing your own field and learning by doing. But when it comes to shaping a great handle my advise is to look at as many accomplished makers work as you can and mimic their work. Not copy what you see but let what they have learned through many years of shaping guide your hand.

Fred
 
I got over this problem one day when I was sheepishly grinding little bits here and there off of the scales I was shaping and was sick and tired of always ending up with the same blah blob shape (for fear of messing up all the work and time I had invested so far and fear of taking too much off.) I just took a stand that day and told myself "no guts, no glory" and went after the scales with a vengeance. I think, at least speaking for myself and my own experience, that this problem is more of a mental block than anything else. I also think that in many cases, the standard thickness of 3/8" for handle scales is really too much and contributes to the problem.

Handles can be quite thin and still be quite comfortable if shaped properly, so there isn't really THAT much risk in getting after it and hogging off some material!
 
Nice rasp, Fred. I got to get me one of those, too!

One reason why I greatly prefer three-wheel grinders over twos is that a contact wheel is SO much better than a platen for shaping comfortable, stylish handles. That, and the ability to get directly above and look down at the grinding/shaping action.

My handles sucked back when I only had my little platen grinder... but also because I was new to the craft.
 
I am a collector, not a knifemakeer, but I made a handle once. Forty years ago I bought a bowie blade from Indian Ridge Traders for my own use and I wanted the handle to fit my hand. I cut some modeling clay to the size of IRT scales and slapped it on the tapered tang, then squeezed, and trimmed, and squeezed, and trimmed, etc. Until the clay was formed to the shape of my fingers and calluses and wrinkles, and all the excess bulk was cut away. Then I installed the impregnated scales and duplicated the clay shape on them. Needless to say it fits my hand. I still have it.

My definition of a custom knife is one made for a customer. You guys make custom knives, but not custom handles. Can your customers squeeze clay?
 
Salem Straub said:
Nice rasp, Fred. I got to get me one of those, too!

One reason why I greatly prefer three-wheel grinders over twos is that a contact wheel is SO much better than a platen for shaping comfortable, stylish handles. That, and the ability to get directly above and look down at the grinding/shaping action.

My handles sucked back when I only had my little platen grinder... but also because I was new to the craft.
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I prefer a slack belt attachment myself.
 
I had to sell a knife from a prominent maker on this forum because of blocky handles and that was AFTER I sent it back to round off the edges. I got it back and it was still blocky. Needless to say I haven't bought from that maker since. Food for thought from a user.
 
Shotgun said:
I had to sell a knife from a prominent maker on this forum because of blocky handles and that was AFTER I sent it back to round off the edges. I got it back and it was still blocky. Needless to say I haven't bought from that maker since. Food for thought from a user.
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Proof that it is a hard habit to break.
I am curious, was it not apparent from the pictures, assuming you saw pictures of it before hand of course?
 
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These are grippy yet fit the hand well.
 
In the past, when I have wanted to put a nice radius on a block of wood, I have used a horizontal belt sander. You can lay the piece flat, and then slowly raise the piece up, using the thickness of the piece as a natural guide. Generally, you get a nice radius in proportion to the width of the piece. Obviously, with a knife tape the edge, and make sure the spine will be pushed into your hand (instead of the edge) if it grabs.
 
You can do a lot of different shapes, to be sure. I prefer the "upside down egg" myself with a more regular ellipse going back the the butt.

one of the best ways to get this in the beginning and know you have it is pull a 45 degree angle and sand that about halfway to the tang on the spine side, then do a 30 degree angle on the other end. if you get this set up, by thew time you've rounded everything, you won't have an blockiness at all!


Another big one for geinners is to make sure your scales are thick enough to start with.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Sometimes, the right kind of blocky works...
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That's true, too. There can be too much of a good thing. I don't like the spine or butt of the handle too rounded off, I find a little "blockiness" helps the handle index properly and gives your fingers something to put pressure against. I do like 'em pretty "soft" where the pointer finger goes, though, maybe not quite as round nearer the end of the underside. Of course a delicate B&T needs a little different handle geometry than a big chopper.

I don't trust "rules" for handles. Just keep removing material till it feels about right, then pass it around to some folks with different-sized hands and ask what they think. It's surprising how versatile the human hand is, within reason of course.
 
Man, I can really relate to this post, Paul!!:thumbup:

My first few knives were understandably rough around the edges and the handles, while functional, weren't at all what I would call contoured. Subsequent knives saw more rounding of the edges of the handle, but were still fairly flat through the middle. It wasn't until I finally, like you, just said "to hell with it!' and really started pressing the front and rear ends of the scales into the grinder wheel that I started to see some decently contoured handles start to emerge. Like you said, I was worried about messing things up in the final stages after all that time and work, so I was taking the cautious route. Forget cautious, start grinding that handle like you mean it! You'll never know how to truly shape one until you just go for it. I also agree, that 3/8" is too thick for a handle slab to start out. That's why I like getting my material from Alpha, Chuck has so many thicknesses to choose from. For small fixed blades I like to use liners that are between .036" and .065" and slabs that are around .195" to .220", totaling just about 1/4" of handle per side.

P J 234 said:
I got over this problem one day when I was sheepishly grinding little bits here and there off of the scales I was shaping and was sick and tired of always ending up with the same blah blob shape (for fear of messing up all the work and time I had invested so far and fear of taking too much off.) I just took a stand that day and told myself "no guts, no glory" and went after the scales with a vengeance. I think, at least speaking for myself and my own experience, that this problem is more of a mental block than anything else. I also think that in many cases, the standard thickness of 3/8" for handle scales is really too much and contributes to the problem.

Handles can be quite thin and still be quite comfortable if shaped properly, so there isn't really THAT much risk in getting after it and hogging off some material!
Click to expand...
 
To get a good organic feeling handle I feel that it is imperative that you spend some time shaping them with files. I remove very carefully some of the obvious waste at the grinder, and set in the palm swell too. Then its all filework. Its time consuming and hard work (especially in big batches), AND you have to sand out all those file marks too. But there is just no ther way to get the same flow (with my skills, of course) at the grinder.

20110211100_3923-vi.jpg
 
Here is the actual knife I was referring to above...I think it was #5 for me and it was headed for that same blob shape as my previous ones. I asked for some shaping guidance here and someone suggested that I try an experiment with clay, but I really didn't learn much from it unfortunately. These were also 3/8" scales on 1/8" stock...way too thick (at least in my opinion.)

IMG_1665.jpg


I decided I would go for a contoured shape with palm swell/recess and tapering towards the blade, which I liked, and here is how it ended up. I removed a lot of material on the grinder to go from the first pic to this one. Still not world class by any stretch but far better than it started, and perhaps more importantly, it got me over that mental hurdle of really going after it on the grinder.

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Here is how my latest contoured handles look. I like the way they feel in my hand and I like the way they look compared to a blob or blocky handle. I do 90-100% of this shaping on a contact wheel and slack belt, with perhaps a little bit of tweaking by shoe-shining with sandpaper if I feel the need. Doing this on the grinder is definitely going to be limited compared to what you can do by hand with files, but I'm not sure what I would do any differently to make the extra time and effort required worthwhile. (Critiques and suggestions are welcome!)

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Paul those look really comfy, your clay experiment tells me that handles could be more comfortabe if they were made strong hand specific (Left / Right)!

I think there is a fine line between scales that fill the hand and being to "Blocky" Rick those Old Hickory handles are fine for daily chores but I would not want to do heavy cutting or chopping with them for long, I would have blisters on my baby soft hands:D

I prefer the 3 wheel grinder as well, I use the 3/4" wheel to contour the basic shape and cut down the top and bottom edges then move to files then hand sand.
 
I think after reading this I will really have to watch when I'm handling my current batch... now that I look at my first knife I can totally see a chamfered rectangle profile, and holding it I can tell it would be 100% comfier if it was rounded. I guess I too will have to learn to not be afraid to really grind down material... here's hoping!
 
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