Axe and crosscut on a big pine

A17-good job! Yes, if you removed the saw from the photo and were looking down at the hinge, the part of the hinge wood near the axe head would be the large side of the triangle and the swell on the axe haft would be the small side of the triangle.
 
I've been able to achieve accurate results with just an axe. But as has been mentioned only falling it using some variation of the lean. Leaving the hinge thicker on one side etc. I need to find a felling saw. My one man is a cross cut and it's 5'-6". I could make it work but so far I've been lucky I guess and only cut trees that i could use an axe on. My next one is leaning so far i really just need a back cut! I'll scarf cut it anyway though, obviously. Of course the largest tree I've ever felled with an axe was 36" roughly. That makes a big difference. If i was falling a giant pine I'd never attempt it with just an axe. Anyway great discussion!
Edit; just wanted to correct myself. Largest tree I've cut with an axe was between 28"-30". I was thinking about it over dinner and it wasn't as big as i had remembered. Not that it matters that much. But to me it really does.
 
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Frederick Koch draws a good image in Bernard Mason's book 'Woodsmanship'. See sketch 4. The thicker hinge wood left at the bottom of the wedge pulls the tree away from its natural lean toward the desired fall line.

Wedge-shaped%20hinge.jpg
 
Old Axeman said:
Great post Muleman 77. All your advise is right on the money and everybody should see this post before they venture into the world of felling trees. I would add to your comment that "straight axe felling is the least exact, in that all you can do is go with the lean". As you know, in straight axe felling, while you must go with the lean and can not wedge, there is one directional felling technique you can use. While following the lean you can "pull" the direction of fall left or right off the lean. To do this you need to make the back (felling) cut with the hinge wood thicker on one side than on the other. If looking at the hinge wood from above it is sort of triangle shaped. Never cut all the way through the hinge in either corner for any reason. If you want to pull the tree to the left than the triangle hinge would have a larger part of wood left on the left. This makes the right side (small side of triangle) fall faster, thus pulling the tree, going with the lean, more to the left. Sorry, this would be better if I knew how to put a drawing on this computer. It is an old computer and maybe just needs to be sharpened, can anybody tell me where and how to hone it with a puck ?
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That's right about the uneven hinge thickness, thanks for adding it in.
I've never had any success with the puck, I just use an angle grinder ;)
 
I just wanted to remind people that cutting a leaner is the fastest way to a barber chair. And simply cutting a scarf isn't enough to prevent a barber chair. There are special techniques for felling leaning trees. These are best learned in person with an experienced feller and not off of the internet.
 
That's fair and admirable. But there's better ways of making a point than quoting me out of context. My comment was in no way, nor can it be misconstrued as, advice. It was a descriptive sentence.
While I've cut many leaners with a chainsaw, i have only cut a couple with an axe. So I'm actually glad you raised the point.
Being that I've been falling trees with a saw on and off my whole life, and I've recently cut a couple dozen good size trees with an axe, i feel i would benefit and could apply some of the tips and techniques you mentioned.
Will you share them? It'd be much appreciated. This oak is not the worst leaner I've ever seen but it's out there pretty good. I can appreciate how the much slower back cut would give a barber chair a lot more opportunity to happen.
 
Man this sucks. I dropped my phone in a bucket of water yesterday. I put it in rice most of the day and thought it was fine. However i just went out back to take a picture of the oak and there's condensation over the lens inside my phone.
It's actually not leaning as bad as i had thought. It's a twin and the other one is leaning worse, which made the one I'm going to cut look worse. Maybe I'll just do the back cut with chainsaw. I don't know anybody who's all that experienced with using an axe. And as you said it's not advisable to share that stuff over the internet.
 
Sorry to hear about your phone man! Kinda reminds me of when my dad would go through phones every month or two. He and a neighbor, both of whom do lots of equipment and vehicle repairs, lost a lot of phones over the years due to the wash and buckets of oil. My dad's current phone survived being run over by a dozer though. It was right in between the grousers and just sank it the dirt while just the screen cover got wrecked by the track bolts. Anyway, to justify this, I'd say to use a chainsaw if that's what you're familiar with. It's always great to learn new techniques but in this case I'd say no. Cutting down a tree, wedging it to change the direction of fall, angling the cut, etc, are okay to try out, but creating more risk and danger in an already risky and possibly deadly situation is foolhardy. My father is pretty good at felling trees due to experience but there are still times when he calls either a retired logger who lives next door or a friend who's a tree guy to deal with stuff because it's too risky for him to try learning on that particular tree in that situation. I suppose what I'm trying to say is experience may be the best teacher, but in risky scenarios unless someone experienced helps you for the first couple of times, you may not live long enough to be taught by experience.
 
Agreed. As i said I've no worries with a chainsaw. My uncle Mark is a full time, self employed woodcutter. He's been doing it his whole life. So if i needed help that's where I'd go. But i don't know anyone who has that much experience using an axe and felling saw. There's just no one around anymore! This tree isn't leaning all that much as i said and I'm confident an axe will suffice.
Caution is always the way to go! Nothing is worth taking chances with your health or life.
 
Yankee Josh said:
But there's better ways of making a point than quoting me out of context.
Click to expand...

Please accept my apology.

For large leaners the prescribed way to fell them is using a bore cut. Start by cutting a small scarf. Then, while staying well back from your hinge wood make a bore (plunge) cut into the middle of the tree. DON'T start the bore cut with the tip of your saw or it will kick back wildly! See this done before trying it! Don't cut the back side (tension side) of the lean, leave at least a couple inches of wood intact back there. Once you have a bore cut through the trunk carefully run that cut forward toward your scarf until your desired hinge thickness is reached. That remaining tension wood at the back of the lean is now your 'trigger wood'. Cutting that will let the tree go all at once without kicking back (barber chairing).

Please don't anyone try this without an experienced feller with you.

Some guys will modify the bore cut method to make an even safer stepped trunk cut with a lock left in place to prevent any barber chairing. Here's a decent video of that.


But on smaller leaners like 10" or less you just don't have enough wood to use the bore cut method. There's a safe way to fell these. Back in 2012 while I was working for the local Dept. of Natural Resources we had a massive late winter ice storm. We had 1000's of downed trees and leaners on our road and trail systems. I used this method many times that year.

You start by making a very shallow very wide scarf cut on the underside of the lean. It should be like 1/2" deep and 8" tall. Maybe a 135° angle - very wide. Slowly skim off 1/2" layers from this scarf, top and bottom with your chainsaw keeping the 135° angle. Once you get back close to the center of the stump start watching for motion and stop cutting at the first sign of it. If the tree is slowing leaning over than just step back and in a minute or 2 it will slowly lower itself to the ground very gradually and safely. If the tree stops moving when you stop cutting that means you're doing a real good job of watching for that first motion. You may need to take another shallow pass or 2 out of your scarf before it starts moving again. When that happens back away. It will come down now.

I don't suggest anyone try this alone. See it demonstrated first. Then practice on some small leaners until you can consistently make them take at least 60 seconds to fall after first motion. Don't think of it as tree felling but more like chainsaw carving. See how little you can take in a pass and see how the tree reacts.
 
Square_peg said:
Please accept my apology.

For large leaners the prescribed way to fell them is using a bore cut. Start by cutting a small scarf. Then, while staying well back from your hinge wood make a bore (plunge) cut into the middle of the tree. DON'T start the bore cut with the tip of your saw or it will kick back wildly! See this done before trying it! Don't cut the back side (tension side) of the lean, leave at least a couple inches of wood intact back there. Once you have a bore cut through the trunk carefully run that cut forward toward your scarf until your desired hinge thickness is reached. That remaining tension wood at the back of the lean is now your 'trigger wood'. Cutting that will let the tree go all at once without kicking back (barber chairing).

Please don't anyone try this without an experienced feller with you.

Some guys will modify the bore cut method to make an even safer stepped trunk cut with a lock left in place to prevent any barber chairing. Here's a decent video of that.


But on smaller leaners like 10" or less you just don't have enough wood to use the bore cut method. There's a safe way to fell these. Back in 2012 while I was working for the local Dept. of Natural Resources we had a massive late winter ice storm. We had 1000's of downed trees and leaners on our road and trail systems. I used this method many times that year.

You start by making a very shallow very wide scarf cut on the underside of the lean. It should be like 1/2" deep and 8" tall. Maybe a 135° angle - very wide. Slowly skim off 1/2" layers from this scarf, top and bottom with your chainsaw keeping the 135° angle. Once you get back close to the center of the stump start watching for motion and stop cutting at the first sign of it. If the tree is slowing leaning over than just step back and in a minute or 2 it will slowly lower itself to the ground very gradually and safely. If the tree stops moving when you stop cutting that means you're doing a real good job of watching for that first motion. You may need to take another shallow pass or 2 out of your scarf before it starts moving again. When that happens back away. It will come down now.

I don't suggest anyone try this alone. See it demonstrated first. Then practice on some small leaners until you can consistently make them take at least 60 seconds to fall after first motion. Don't think of it as tree felling but more like chainsaw carving. See how little you can take in a pass and see how the tree reacts.
Click to expand...
Totally accepted. Thanks. I'm familiar with chainsaw techniques, i thought we were referring to using an axe/ felling hand saw tips. That was a nicely explained dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to post it! It's hard to explain some things.
 
I'll post more in the "let's use those axes for what they were meant for" thread. But since the subject of the oak I'm going to cut was brought up in this thread i thought I'd post a couple photos of it. It's the one to the right that I'm gonna cut. It's not leaning that much. Looks worse because the other one is leaning so far.
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2jmCf5C.jpg
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I'm charging up the gopro now so hopefully i can grab some "action" shots. I'll be using my Rodgers superior Connecticut pattern on a 35" curly(striped?) hickory haft.
 
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