Axe for taming the yard

[300Six]

...How so exactly? Every circumstance I can think of in which a human limb could be struck by a billhook or brush axe, the same would occur with one of those tools if you were to perform the same motion with the tool swapped out.

This statement tells me you're only looking to promote your own inherently unsafe stuff. Get with the program; tin and green horn (but enthusiastic) axe and knife buyers of today are more likely to hurt themselves with a manual can opener than a seasoned tree topper 100 feet up on a springboard chopping through a fir was in the 1920s.
Sandviks are infinitely safer than open and long blade implements.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

This statement tells me you're only looking to promote your own inherently unsafe stuff. Get with the program; tin and green horn (but enthusiastic) axe and knife buyers of today are more likely to hurt themselves with a manual can opener than a seasoned tree topper 100 feet up on a springboard chopping through a fir was in the 1920s.
Sandviks are infinitely safer than open and long blade implements.

Nice deflection. How about you try that again and actually answer the question? Really...how the heck are you hitting yourself in the first place? And how would that be prevented using a Sandvik vs. a conventional brush axe?

 

[Square_peg]

Since I am not taking down large timber, I ended up ordering a Council Tool Boy's axe. Thank you again for all of the suggestions.

Good choice. And it will be great for camping and bushcraft, too. Hard to go wrong with a good boys axe.

 

[Square_peg]

OK so now it's 'Husqvarna' that markets these. They've been known solely as 'Sandviks' in Canada for the past 50 years. And yes, as I mentioned in an earlier post, they're safe and efficient and by gosh the nice thin blades are replaceable or remove easy for sharpening.
It's considerably easier to "bark your shins" with conventional versions of brush and bill hooks.

I've always known them as Sandviks. I'd bet that Sandvik is making these for Husqvarna. They work fine but the blades can pop out under heavy use. I like to think of them as machetes for people who can't be trusted with a real machete.

 

[300Six]

I've always known them as Sandviks. I'd bet that Sandvik is making these for Husqvarna. They work fine but the blades can pop out under heavy use. I like to think of them as machetes for people who can't be trusted with a real machete.

Up this way government employees fall under this category because provinces and the feds jettisoned axes and brush hooks outright in favour of Sandviks. Chainsaws can now only be used by those that are specially licensed.

 

[bbforstr]

I've always known them as Sandviks. I'd bet that Sandvik is making these for Husqvarna. They work fine but the blades can pop out under heavy use. I like to think of them as machetes for people who can't be trusted with a real machete.

I've always used Sandviks. Used an occasional Haglof. I've never tried the Husqvarna version but it looks like a quality tool. It wouldn't surprise me if Sandvik was making them for Husqvarna. I've also used a woodsmans pal but they are too short for my taste. They are like a short machete with a brush hook on the backside. The're pretty light weight when compared to Sandviks. I also like the head weight and balance of a Sandvik better.

I've used Sandviks enough that I have shinned myself once or twice. It hurt like hell but no contact with the blade. It left a nice bruise though. It's no worse than walking your shin into a staub. I still think Sandviks are the safer brush axe and when used properly they can be every bit as effective as a machete. It's personal taste but I think they are fast accurate and reasonably safe. In forestry work clearing a traverse or for clearing sight lines for road surveys they are my favorite brush/small sapling clearing tool.

I watch the kid I work with using a Sandvik and it makes me laugh. He swings it like a 3 lb axe. I just push on saplings and give them a light tap and they are on the ground. I can see him trying to figure out how I can clear more than he does and not get tired out. He goes through a LOT more blades than I do too. I think he went through 3 blades to my 1 blade this year. One of these days I'll show him the easy method. Don't want to let him on to the secret too soon.

Later

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As I believe I've mentioned before, I consider the Sandvik as being to the classical North American brush axe and/or machete (depending on environment of use) what the weed whip/brush cutter is to the scythe. It is a lower skill tool requiring less training or "tool literacy" to use, but also less efficient in the majority of cases. On the spectrum of "flora management" tools it sits between a machete and a brush axe. However, while good on small saplings and scrubby branches, it's not as effective outside of that range of application. Unlike the weed whip, it does have certain narrow applications where it really is the best tool for the job, but if you had properly sensible and skilled workers I strongly believe that a light brush axe is a superior tool able to effectively tackle a wider range of targets in a broader range of environments.

I'm still interested in hearing 300Six's examples of how one could cut themselves with a brush axe and not do so with a Sandvik of equal length with the same stroke. He's posted in the thread after I challenged him to give an example of this reasoning, but he's ignored it. If I'm wrong I'm happy to be proven so, but ad hominem isn't a valid argument.

 

[300Six]

FortyTwoBlades; You're a bona fide inspired young buck (under 40 years of age I'm guessing) with a fetish for old stuff (and good on you, though, for this) the use of which dates from well before your time and you have never been in the employ of now long dead folks that actually vied to made a living by using these oldies. I only ever caught the tail end of this dangerous/reckless commercial era and do not yearn for it, such as you do, as a consequence.
Both of my daughters are competent and experienced with a Sandvik (and so far (10 years) uninjured) and I have never done any more than show them what the previous era's workers were expected to use.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Again, you're dodging my questions while reverting to ad hominem. If your argument is factual, please explain how. There is no more danger, in my experience, between a properly used brush axe and a Sandvik, and many functional advantages to be gained in choosing the former.

 

[bbforstr]

FTB

Sandviks definitely aren't a universal tool but they are very good at what they're designed for. I still feel they are considerably safer than a brush axe. A chainsaw is probably more efficient but if I need to clear lines for surveying, I'll choose a Sandvik any day. They're just a tool and they have their application. I wouldn't want to buck a sawlog with one.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Can you answer why you consider them safer? In what circumstance would a brush axe represent a hazard and the Sandvik not? I really feel that these sentiments are based on emotion rather than fact.

 

[300Six]

Can you answer why you consider them safer? In what circumstance would a brush axe represent a hazard and the Sandvik not? I really feel that these sentiments are based on emotion rather than fact.

There is very little exposed blade on a Sandvik as compared to a machete or a brush hook. And the sharp parts are furthest away from the hand too. Plus the blade ends are encased by wide dull metal, meaning you have to strike your boot or shin with some degree of accuracy in order to experience the effects of the blade. There is no guard of any kind on a machete or a brush hook and just having such a tool leave your hand by accident, or deflect somehow, during a swing is a recipe for injury.

 

[bbforstr]

I think they're safer because the blade is only six inches long and it's surrounded by a steel frame. If you shin yourself it will likely be with the frame, not the blade. The length of the blade definitely limits their application to small diameter material though.

Given that, the blade is still extremely sharp. Contact with th blade would do damage. Their size and weight also makes them very accurate. Kind of like comparing a scalpel to a cleaver. They aren't designed for a full out, everything you have swing. More of a well thought out light swing. More control than brute strength. Limited application but very good at what they do.

 

[quinton]

Can you answer why you consider them safer? In what circumstance would a brush axe represent a hazard and the Sandvik not? I really feel that these sentiments are based on emotion rather than fact.

1.) They are commonly called a Swedish "safety" axe. This alone speaks volumes!
2.) They are way safer because you can remove the blade during transport to the jobsite..
3.) Inexperienced users can be properly trained to use a safety axe with the blade removed (for their safety of coarse)

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

There is very little exposed blade on a Sandvik as compared to a machete or a brush hook. And the sharp parts are furthest away from the hand too. Plus the blade ends are encased by wide dull metal, meaning you have to strike your boot or shin with some degree of accuracy in order to experience the effects of the blade. There is no guard of any kind on a machete or a brush hook and just having such a tool leave your hand by accident, or deflect somehow, during a swing is a recipe for injury.

On a brush axe the projecting bill will strike the ground rather than the end, and it projects farther--actually making it less likely than the Sandvik to strike the user. The sharp parts are also farthest from the hand. When using it to remove branches (though this is a task best suited to machetes and billhooks) the handle is usually gripped with one hand just a little below the head for increased stability and control and the mass of the tool allowed to do the bulk of the work.

There are tons of machetes with guards, though they are usually unnecessary if the handles are ergonomically proper and the blade is of appropriate length for the target vegetation.

You can use lanyards with all three tools (machetes, Sandviks, brush axes) but I generally discourage the practice because if you are too fatigued to safely hold the tool you need to stop and rest rather than press on.

Deflection is almost universally caused by a misalignment of the edge with the arc of the stroke or by the edge angle being thicker than the angle of approach. This is remedied by keeping the edge angle thin and keeping the tool properly oriented in use. The Sandvik is not excluded from that dynamic. When properly swung, none of the tools should be capable of striking the user. Standing clear of the path of the blade is a requirement in the use of all swung edged tools.

With respect, I suspect you are not well-versed in the proper methods of use for machetes and brush axes.

 

[300Six]

With respect, I suspect you are not well-versed in the proper methods of use for machetes and brush axes.

I can live with that, as a self righteous slur coming specifically from you. I guess I'm only a rookie even though my fingers, shins and knees are still intact and I've somehow managed to become a senior citizen. You didn't answer my question about your age.
Don't get all indignant about progress; my grandfather (born 1894) became so overwhelmed with changes in technology from horses and coal lamps to transistors and jet airplanes that he committed suicide just before his 90th birthday.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

You actually didn't directly ask my age (29, if you really must know) and it has nothing to do with my level of experience with and understanding of the tool. As Kant said, experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play. The two factors are needed in roughly equal measure to culture true understanding.

I'm not at all indignant, and not making a slur whatsoever. However, your words indicate a lack of understanding for the particular tool in question: that being the classic North American-style brush axe. To use hyperbole, if I were to call backhoes horrible excavating tools because I didn't know how to use them and that everyone should use shovels and picks instead, that would be a bit silly, wouldn't it? Progress is a fantastic thing, and I actively welcome innovation providing it brings true advantage over the prior method. But context is everything when it comes to appropriate tool selection. As I've already noted, there are some very limited situations in which I can envision the Sandvik being the superior tool to select, but that range of application is very narrow compared to brush axes and machetes.

Terribly sorry to hear about your grandfather.

 

[300Six]

I give up on this petty argument. We're all here because "we" have a fetish for bygone implements. My suggesting a newer version of a brush hook to be safer has entirely sidetracked this thread. Pulaski was where I was headed at the very beginning of this, and yes those do too require indoctrination before safely going forward.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Suit yourself. I don't really consider any of my statements petty, though. You simply made the argument that

It's considerably easier to "bark your shins" with conventional versions of brush and bill hooks.

and I asked for examples of how so, because I couldn't envision such. You then dodged my simple question and made the following baseless claim (emphasis added):

This statement tells me you're only looking to promote your own inherently unsafe stuff. Get with the program; tin and green horn (but enthusiastic) axe and knife buyers of today are more likely to hurt themselves with a manual can opener than a seasoned tree topper 100 feet up on a springboard chopping through a fir was in the 1920s.
Sandviks are infinitely safer than open and long blade implements.

That's a pretty aggressive statement, not to mention a patently false one on several levels. The OP already made a purchase decision on the first page, anyhow, but sure, if you don't feel like continuing the debate we can leave it at that. I think there's been enough information provided on both sides for anyone following along to draw an informed conclusion.