Axe, hatchet and tomahawk techniques. Videos.

Edwood7

Edwood7

Joined
Mar 31, 2010
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When i was in the army, we had a very brief lesson in improvise weapons, such as the entrenching tool and hatchet; my instructor really opened my eyes to the versatility of the axe as a CQC weapon. He was instructed these techniques by US army personnel and I never did get around to asking more details about were these tactics came from.


Illustration from an old army manual on hand held weapons

A little latter on in my life i got to spend some time in Coronado, CA. with some very grate guys that introduced me to some very basic tomahawk fighting, as a complement to the military CQC training program I was attending.
I never found anything on the internet resembling what I learned back then till now. Check these video out.

http://blip.tv/ask-sensei/axe-hatchet-and-or-tomahawk-techniques-part-1-1154747

The videos are by a man named Peter Brusso, he says he is a combat veteran that served in Vietnam. The techniques he teaches on these videos are almost identical to the ones I learned back then. Tell me what you think about them?

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Hi Et,

What an eye opener!
I'm trying to see if there's an association between having a hatchet and a khukuri, both made to introduce massive trauma to body parts.

9anglesqt0.jpg

Note: To simplify the explanations all cut-n-thrust angle numbers are taken directly from the “9 angles of attack” chart shown below. This I chose to use, as it is undoubtedly familiar to most, coming directly from U. S. Army Field Manual 3-25.150 Combatives. For those of you not familiar with the angle chart they are not to be taken literally. Simply they are a reference of cut or thrust direction nothing more.


Cut from the draw: This cut or slash would be necessary only if a surprise attack upon your person were evident. The cut itself is purely a number 8 upward angular laceration. Considering the distance at which your adversary is, the draw cut can come from either a right or left leg lead stance. The difference being that, at a slightly greater adversarial distance, using the right lead will allow one to step into the slice with the left leg as it comes up and across thus adding a bit more power. At a lesser distance use the left lead and slash immediately.

Thrust from the draw: The thrust, which is either a high or a low number 5, is implemented as follows. From a left lead and as the Khukri clears the sheathe, it is brought to right side point turned straight outward, edge down parallel to the ground or horizontal. The handle will be next to the body, with the knuckles at the waist, arm cocked back. Straight away, propel the blade forward concurrent with a right forward step thus adding weight and force to the stab. Should the attacker be too close for the right step, simply thrust from the left lead, using shoulder, and body torque for additional power. In the guard position, the left arm is ready to block, parry, or for a follow up strike of its own.

The cut and thrust from the draw are the two immediate action techniques. Under other, less pressing circumstances and if your awareness level is high, as it should be, it is incessantly preferred to have the blade out and ready in the on guard posture.
Click to expand...
 
The first vid had me thinking twice about watching the others, but all in all, it is pretty solid.


Ookami
 
pretty interesting. It looks very similar to some of the stick fighting and knife fighting training I have done.

I have always wondered if some of the knife fighting styles like Sayoc or AMOK utilize the tomahawk at all.
 
Viva La,

Could you share your insight on AMOK?
I'm taking up a class on that, along with the T.Balintawak.

Thanks
J
 
Thanks for the link I'll have to check it out later. I've been going through this phase where I've been wanting a self defense knife but just recently realized that I'm probably better off carrying my trail hawk then a 6 inch bladed knife. For some reason I had it in my head that a knife is a better self defense tool.:rolleyes:
 
Interesting videos Ed.

A lot of it seems counter-intuitive in a society enchanted with bare-handed and stick fighting, but for those with an interest in more European martial arts, the axe comes into its own. I like how he kept reinforcing to let the inertia of the weapon do the work, you don't have to get it moving like a stick. One of the big differences in sticks and axes is that even on a slow or bad hit, you'll still hurt them with the axe.

I also like how he shows that even though you have the disadvantage of not being able to really wind up and strike quickly because of all the inertia in the head, you can still move the axe quickly, and use that inertia to your advantage.

One thing I will contend with is the snap in the attack, though. I realize he poo-pooed it in the context of letting the axe swing way back like a machete and snapping it forward. But, if you execute most of his attacks right up to about 3" from contact, then relaxe your wrist and use your arms to "crack the whip", you will greatly increase the impact velocity and damage done in the same time frame. Note, I only watched the first vid, so if he covers this later, I didn't see it.



Jay: in regard to axe vs kukri mechanics-wise, with the kukri being like both a machete and an axe, some of it applies, some doesn't. One thing that applies is to let the kukri's weight and inertia do most of the work. Just how I describe being able to use my 20" CAK for long periods by letting the mass and gravity to do most of the work, in a fight, don't swing wide like a machete, make fast, quick cuts. I know that's different from a lot of the Gurkha demonstrations we see in videos where they wind up and swing into the head, in reality, I suspect they start much closer to the head and do a fast(er) snap cut.

If you want a truly vicious combination, use one of each. Picture the tomahawk of your choice paired with a Tamang or opne of the lighter M43s.
 
Shotgun said:
Thanks for the link I'll have to check it out later. I've been going through this phase where I've been wanting a self defense knife but just recently realized that I'm probably better off carrying my trail hawk then a 6 inch bladed knife. For some reason I had it in my head that a knife is a better self defense tool.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well, feed the want. :D

Look at the historical use of the hawk and knife. Your trail hawk paired with a Ka-Bar USMC or ESEE-6 would make a brutal combination.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
One thing that applies is to let the kukri's weight and inertia do most of the work. Just how I describe being able to use my 20" CAK for long periods by letting the mass and gravity to do most of the work...
Click to expand...

This applies to cutting wood as well. I think there's a lot of people who think they have to power through the wood and end up using a great deal more energy then if they let the tool do the work. I think this is why a lot of people think a folding saw is better then a hawk. In some circumstances that may be true but IME I use less energy with the hawk then the saw. It's a little slower at times with the hawk but it's not as exhausting.
 
Cpl,

Thanks for clearing that up!
I suspect they start much closer to the head and do a fast(er) snap cut.
Click to expand...

I think instead of doing the full circle (hence exposing the torso) they did a quick slash and pull cuts.Maybe that explain why they often hold the khuk much closer towards the bolster for better control?

I found another link that shows a little techniques :
http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/degenhawk/hawk_and_rondell.html
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Interesting videos Ed.

A lot of it seems counter-intuitive in a society enchanted with bare-handed and stick fighting, but for those with an interest in more European martial arts, the axe comes into its own. I like how he kept reinforcing to let the inertia of the weapon do the work, you don't have to get it moving like a stick. One of the big differences in sticks and axes is that even on a slow or bad hit, you'll still hurt them with the axe.

I also like how he shows that even though you have the disadvantage of not being able to really wind up and strike quickly because of all the inertia in the head, you can still move the axe quickly, and use that inertia to your advantage.

One thing I will contend with is the snap in the attack, though. I realize he poo-pooed it in the context of letting the axe swing way back like a machete and snapping it forward. But, if you execute most of his attacks right up to about 3" from contact, then relaxe your wrist and use your arms to "crack the whip", you will greatly increase the impact velocity and damage done in the same time frame. Note, I only watched the first vid, so if he covers this later, I didn't see it.



Jay: in regard to axe vs kukri mechanics-wise, with the kukri being like both a machete and an axe, some of it applies, some doesn't. One thing that applies is to let the kukri's weight and inertia do most of the work. Just how I describe being able to use my 20" CAK for long periods by letting the mass and gravity to do most of the work, in a fight, don't swing wide like a machete, make fast, quick cuts. I know that's different from a lot of the Gurkha demonstrations we see in videos where they wind up and swing into the head, in reality, I suspect they start much closer to the head and do a fast(er) snap cut.
Click to expand...

Hello! Edwood just posted a similar thread over at Prac/Tac and what you posted here with regards to the biomechs is essentially the same as to what I was trying to expand, different words only.

Good stuff! :thumbup:
 
Edwood thanks for the post and links.

Brings back memories of being trained to use etools and hatchets back in the Corps. But my training was a bit more intense.

The Winkler hawk is great....but a very acceptable substitute for far less money is the Estwing E24A which can be picked up in most hardware stores. No spike but sometimes it's better just to crush bones, flesh and nerves.

Mnay of the techniques DO apply to the kukri. As well as it's having many techniques which can be peculiar to it. But my M-43 isn't as innocuous as the hatchet nor as compact to carry.
 
I definitely have an affinity for having a cutting edge and a blunt edge that doesn't stick in the target, for reasons I've enumerated before.

What would be cool, is a weapon that has a blunt side for major trauma without sticking into the target, and then maybe a spike on the back for piercing the increasingly popular armor.

Oh wait. It's called a WAR HAMMER, and I think someone came up with it long ago for the very same reasons.

I wonder when we'll see an RMJ War Hammer??? :D
 


This American Kami war hammer is the only modern one i have seen. One good thing about it is that the blunt striking edge is thin, making it easier to strike the neck are or any other expose soft targets, when facing someone with body armor.
 
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