axe, tomohaek or large blade??

[Foilist]

When I go camping, a fixed blade, multitool, and hatchet do everything that I might need. The fixed blade is a Becker Crewman, which I would describe as a medium sized knife that acts like a big one if need be.

If space or weight is a concern, I leave the hatchet behind.

 

[Fonly]

That happen to you a lot?

haha really

 

[upnorth]

Large Knife, Axe or Saw.

This has become like Rock, Paper, Scissors lately.

Would need the season, region, terrain, and what was being planned (ie; build a Cabin, or make a Lean to).

I'll say all of the above to cover any situation that might arise.

Now this sounds reasonable. We all know that we wont go bushwhacking without a knife, so its a saw, axe issue. To hell with it, bring both. With a little searching we can find the right size, weight tools for a pack in trip. I like playing with my tomahawk but if its too wimpy or too much work to cut big wood, a saw would help me a lot. I dont care if it sticks out a bit, but I like my junk to be packable on my back. I could probably stuff a reasonable sized Swede saw in my main pack.

 

[Thomas Linton]

After spending a bunch of money on tomahawks including a Bear Mtn Ranier I have found I don't like them much. For throwing and just having fun they are great but for chopping or splitting I'll take a hatchet or an axe.

The abrupt transition between the blade and cheek of almost all hawks makes them less effective at splitting than the typican hand axe (not that all of them are properly profiled for splitting).

 

[Thomas Linton]

Large Knife, Axe or Saw.

This has become like Rock, Paper, Scissors lately.

Would need the season, region, terrain, and what was being planned (ie; build a Cabin, or make a Lean to).

I'll say all of the above to cover any situation that might arise.

Skunk says it's not a black or white decision.

 

[upnorth]

The abrupt transition between the blade and cheek of almost all hawks makes them less effective at splitting than the typican hand axe (not that all of them are properly profiled for splitting).

I didnt know that, thanks. Hmmm, sure looks like their are better options for chopping than a hawk, but what the hey. This tool is still applicable for lighter chopping and was used for pretty much everything on the North American frontier. I think that this is the romance of a hawk for me. I admit that a hawk may be a less efficient wood chopping tool, it makes sense to me, and that some of my carrying one is emotional as opposed to pure rational practicality. This may be why I also concede that I should have a smaller saw with me. The hawk has limited wood chopping abilities....but it can still be used for that application. I also cant justify carrying a BK-1 on my hip if I have a hawk and saw with me. I could use a smaller fixed blade, but...back to the emotional aspect again. I just like a big knife. How it hefts in my hand etc. and it can be used as a poor substitute wood chopper in a pinch. So yes, you are absolutely right, pure rational efficiency should dictate my tool decisions, but unfortunately Im not purely rational and I just like some of my toys.

 

[Andros]

Wow this conversation again.Being a knife nut I own big small and medium knives. I love them all but I cant see how people can think that a big knife can compete with an axe for chopping and splitting. Sure it can do it but is is effective or practical. Its like comparing an El-Camino to a 1 ton truck for hauling.

That’s easy! Just read these tests http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/busse_bm.html
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=157

as small samples of how this can be done. Aside from this, referring to “an axe” to me is like referring to “a car”. You give a general idea of the item but you don’t actually describe something that everyone can understand. The reason I am saying this is because there are many different types of axes. So, yes, if you are talking about a splitting maul (which technically is a type of an axe) then I will agree that this will outperform any big knife in terms of wood splitting because it is a specialized tool made for splitting. Just like a Caterpillar will outperform any SUV out there in hauling. But, would you use this Caterpillar as a means of driving from Los Angeles to Las Vegas? I don’t think so. However, you would use that SUV for that matter wouldn’t you?
On the other hand, as you can read here http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/busse_bm.html
(the Busse Combat Battle Mistress) “in regards to raw penetration, it can consistently match the performance of the Gransfors Bruks Wildlife hatchet”. It does NOT say “the penetration of the Scandinavian Forest Axe”. So, once again what kind of axe are you referring to?

P.S when was the last time someone chopped through a concrete wall or had to pry with your knife so hard that you broke it. I have never broke a knife I do own one SOG that is a piece of crap (lock fails) but it was like 35$ ten years ago. I just don't understand were the hell you people live travel or what you use your Knives for. Currently I am looking at about a 4" knife for back country hiking hunting. Thinking about a Bark River or a Lightfoot. Hopefully if I get intombed in concrete my new knife will be up to the task to chop my way out.
Sorry for the RANT but I'm confused

I really can’t speak for everyone here, therefore, I am not in a position to know when was the last time someone chopped through a concrete wall or, had to pry their knife so hard that they broke it. I don’t think this is the issue though. If you own a knife that you know has been tested to achieve this level of performance, wouldn’t you feel more comfortable knowing that you can trust this knife to perform more mundane outdoors-related tasks? There are three factors at play any time any tool is used - the situation, the tool, and the user. Some people really push themselves, as well as, their equipment more than others. This means they will confront more difficult situations, demand more of their tools and more of themselves. I hope this cleared the confusion.

 

[MONKEYAZZ]

Well g_moutafis after reading the links provided these are my observations. 1 I would not consider the Wildlife Hatchet and Axe. I was thinking something along the Scandinavian Forest Axe, it only has a weight of 680 grams with a 19" handle, the hatchet is only 14" and 450gram head (shorter than the Busse (660 gram)and a lighter weight) and I feel is still something that is reasonable to carry while hiking.
2. You are comparing a $50 hatchet to a Busse. I thought we were talking about the average large knives.

Anyway still havent changed my mind but can appreciate a large blade.
Cheers

 

[Andros]

Well g_moutafis after reading the links provided these are my observations. 1 I would not consider the Wildlife Hatchet and Axe.

Aside from whether you consider the Wildlife hatchet an Axe or not, this doesn't change the fact that it is.

I was thinking something along the Scandinavian Forest Axe, it only has a weight of 680 grams with a 19" handle, the hatchet is only 14" and 450gram head (shorter than the Busse (660 gram)and a lighter weight) and I feel is still something that is reasonable to carry while hiking.

This is a fine Axe too albeit, substantially bigger. Once out in the wild, every ounce counts.

2. You are comparing a $50 hatchet to a Busse. I thought we were talking about the average large knives.

Please, define "the average large knives". For the sake of the records though, I haven't made a reference to Busse knives only. You may want to read my two other posts in this thread and you will see that this is the case. I own a lot of knives, commercially made, custom made, hand made, Busse's, Swamp Rat's, Khukuris, swords, axes, you name it and I can attest that (eventhough I like them a lot) not only Busse's can chop. I took the time and hand sharpened a Himalayan Imports WWII khukuri to the point that it will shave a napkin! We are talking about an 18" khukuri! This blade is like a hand powered chain saw! I am not trying to put down the value of a good axe. I am just sayin that knives are not just for cutting.

Anyway still havent changed my mind but can appreciate a large blade.
Cheers

I can respect that.

Take care.

 

[skammer]

Exactly, A knife is to cut, and an axe is to split and chop, why did we come up with axes and saw???
That lil' knife didnt work to well did it?

I chop and split with my blade all the time nearly every weekend.

The limitations of course are the size of log or tree. Anything up to 4 inch diameter is large blade chopable and splitable.

Anything larger than that I dont need to chop or split as I am not building a log cabin and sure as hell aint humping an axe and saw into the back 40.

It may not be ideal but when you have to hump it all in miles from a trail or road a one tool do all piece of kit is the smartest idea I have come up with.

If you are 10 feet or a hundred yards from a vehicle sure carry all your correct tools for the job "hell bring a chainsaw" but when you have to lug it you have to make weight related decisions.

In all my years in SAR I never once saw anyone bring an axe or large saw (tiny lightweight handsaws sure) into the back 40 for good reason and nobody wished they had either.

Skam

 

[Thomas Linton]

I didnt know that, thanks. Hmmm, sure looks like their are better options for chopping than a hawk, but what the hey. This tool is still applicable for lighter chopping and was used for pretty much everything on the North American frontier. I think that this is the romance of a hawk for me. I admit that a hawk may be a less efficient wood chopping tool, it makes sense to me, and that some of my carrying one is emotional as opposed to pure rational practicality. This may be why I also concede that I should have a smaller saw with me. The hawk has limited wood chopping abilities....but it can still be used for that application. I also cant justify carrying a BK-1 on my hip if I have a hawk and saw with me. I could use a smaller fixed blade, but...back to the emotional aspect again. I just like a big knife. How it hefts in my hand etc. and it can be used as a poor substitute wood chopper in a pinch. So yes, you are absolutely right, pure rational efficiency should dictate my tool decisions, but unfortunately Im not purely rational and I just like some of my toys.

Nothing wrong with using what you like when its fun and recreation.:thumbup:

Hawks, and GB smaller axes, cut just fine. Usually, the size of wood that's best to use is well within the scope of such tools (and they are realtively light and easy to rehandle). It's if you need/want to split larger hardwood (not present in Sweden) that the problems appear. They go in to the depth of the blade then come to that abrupt transition and want to stop. If you can, compare the top profile of a Marble's hand axe or an old Collins or Plumb to the top profile of a typical hawk or a GB Small Forest Axe.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Well g_moutafis after reading the links provided these are my observations. 1 I would not consider the Wildlife Hatchet and Axe. I was thinking something along the Scandinavian Forest Axe, it only has a weight of 680 grams with a 19" handle, the hatchet is only 14" and 450gram head (shorter than the Busse (660 gram)and a lighter weight) and I feel is still something that is reasonable to carry while hiking.
2. You are comparing a $50 hatchet to a Busse. I thought we were talking about the average large knives.

Anyway still havent changed my mind but can appreciate a large blade.
Cheers

I own the GB SFA and the GB Hunter's Axe. Again, fine cutters. Again, poor splitters on hardwood and Yellow Pine. Based on at least seven hours of steady work last Fall, I can split 3-6" hardwood rounds easier with a baton and my Bark River Golok than with the SFA. On the other paw, the SFA zips though 1-2" wood, hard and soft, both dead and when limbing felled trees. It is excellent felling pines up to 8" -- going around in beaver fashion.

GB does make larger axes with a splitting profile, but I would be unlikely to carry one of those into the wilderness.

 

[Fiddleback]

I own the GB SFA and the GB Hunter's Axe. Again, fine cutters. Again, poor splitters on hardwood and Yellow Pine. Based on at least seven hours of steady work last Fall, I can split 3-6" hardwood rounds easier with a baton and my Bark River Golok than with the SFA. On the other paw, the SFA zips though 1-2" wood, hard and soft, both dead and when limbing felled trees. It is excellent felling pines up to 8" -- going around in beaver fashion.

GB does make larger axes with a splitting profile, but I would be unlikely to carry one of those into the wilderness.

Thomas,

How much splitting would one need to do in the wild. Except for messing around and batoning my knives, I've never split anything in the wild. I mean, you may need to split a plank off a log for a bowdrill firemaking setup, etc. But you're not going to be splitting chords of firewood at the campsite. Are you?

Just wondering.

 

[hollowdweller]

The only time I have really split much wood in the woods backpacking is when the wood is really wet and I needed the dry interior, or when the campfire ring is very wet and I needed a dry platform to start a fire on

Usually the hatchets that are light enough(for me) to carry even if they had the properly contoured head would be too light to split anything very big.

What I do when I do need to do it is rather than propping whatever I am going to split straight up and down, and then splitting it like I would with a maul or big axe, I'll lay it either flat or diagonal and come down on the side of it on one end. That usually cracks it about a third to halfway. Then I strike again where the crack ends and that usually expands it to 2/3 and then either on the other side or the end of that side and if it doesn't split I can pull them apart.

 

[Fiddleback]

That makes sense. I've never had to split more than what you've got in that pic.

 

[Fonly]

I chop and split with my blade all the time nearly every weekend.

The limitations of course are the size of log or tree. Anything up to 4 inch diameter is large blade chopable and splitable.

Anything larger than that I dont need to chop or split as I am not building a log cabin and sure as hell aint humping an axe and saw into the back 40.

It may not be ideal but when you have to hump it all in miles from a trail or road a one tool do all piece of kit is the smartest idea I have come up with.

If you are 10 feet or a hundred yards from a vehicle sure carry all your correct tools for the job "hell bring a chainsaw" but when you have to lug it you have to make weight related decisions.

In all my years in SAR I never once saw anyone bring an axe or large saw (tiny lightweight handsaws sure) into the back 40 for good reason and nobody wished they had either.

Skam

Thats what I've said. If im hiking I'll take my saw, If I'm going somewhere camping, i'll take an axe, But im never leaving the fact that ( for me ) A knife is NO substatue for an axe, I'm not going to take a large knife in place of an axe. Theres a place for a big knife, and a place for an axe, Up here I'll take my axe, and a 4" fixed.
And I cant say this enough, Its the owners opinion, everytime no matter what. If your better at using a big knife than an axe, fine but the axe is what works for me.

No disrespect Skammer, Its only my opinion.

 

[crossada]

when it comes to batoning 4-6" wood what does better a hatchet/tomahawk or a big knife? i have used a 9" knife for this task with good results but will a tomahawk do this faster?

 

[Andros]

hey if want the lateest FBM for wood work go for it, but for campin and hikin' im taking an axe saw and Small fixed blade, I cant find a need for a knife like that.

Whether I want the latest FBM for wood work is not what is discussed here. What is discussed is your statement "A knife is to cut, and an axe is to split and chop". If you feel O.K. with an axe, a saw and a small fixed blade while being in the outdoors, that's fine. I just find the above mentioned statement incorrect.

If you have the time read this post http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4295084&postcount=1. What do you think about this knife? Is it good only for cutting? Are all the knives for which I have provided posts that prove their chopping and wood splitting potential good just for cutting? If we were to accept this statement, we would downgrade all those makers who put their heart and soul into the making of these awesome tools and we would nullify the experiences of everyone who has used and still using them harder than most people think. Yet, those blades don't let us down. I feel that at least we owe them this recognition!

Thats what I've said. If im hiking I'll take my saw, If I'm going somewhere camping, i'll take an axe, But im never leaving the fact that ( for me ) A knife is NO substatue for an axe, I'm not going to take a large knife in place of an axe.

Which axe are you referring about? The word "axe" is something very generic, as is the word "knife", since there are so many variables that come into play. The design of the axe head, the curvature of the edge, the bevel face, are adapted to its range of uses: hardwood demands axe with fairly thick bit, with rounded bevel face. With softwood cutting, the bit can be thinner. When limbing in frozen wood (frozen wood is hard) the bit must be thicker, and the curvature of the bit more rounded than cutting in non frozen wood. Dry wood cutting needs straight bevel. Not only is the thickness of the bit is important for the strength, but a rounded curvature of the edge is stronger than a flat curvature.

Theres a place for a big knife, and a place for an axe

This is true!

Up here I'll take my axe, and a 4" fixed.
And I cant say this enough, Its the owners opinion, everytime no matter what. If your better at using a big knife than an axe, fine but the axe is what works for me.

No disrespect Skammer, Its only my opinion

Your opinion is respected.

 

[Fonly]

G Moutafis, The axe im reffering too would be the wetterlings large hunters axe, Its basicly a flat V, though its a "thiner" V, it works extremly well.
Heres a little bit for you to read on the axe.
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=147

I dont think my statement was incorrect, I was saying that if you want to do that ( spend that much money on a large knife) Than by all means go for it, But there are less expensive, and some what more efficent tools.
Like an axe in the jungle would be a mistake, when you should have a 18" machete.

The post you provided is a fine knife for what it was made for, light chopping. I wouldn't expect to cut a loaf of bread with it, And I dont think its only good for cutting, its .25'' thick. That knife would be good for light chopping, but it would need a smaller knife for smaller cutting tasks, but a fine knife it is.

 

[Hartsell]

Here is what I've been using lately. Sorry for the lousy pic.

It's 10" overall and 1/4" thick. The bit shape allows it to be used like a ulu. The sheath allows it to be carried handle up, like a knife. Very comfortable to carry and use, even though it is a pretty hefty chunk of steel.