Axis lock Ganzos

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Wunderbar

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May 2, 2003
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Not to stir up a major conversation but I"d like to know BMs' stance on the Axis lock and designs used by Ganzo. I take its not a friendly deal like the way it is with Lionsteel. I will be contacting Benchmade tomorrow with questions.
 
I’m sure they aren’t happy about it. That being said I’m sure trademark and patten enforcement with a company overseas is probably pretty difficult. Maybe a informative conversation could be had here if BM chimes in but usually threads like this get too heated and closed quickly.
 
I see. I'm a bit perplexed on how these are sold on Amazon. Amazons not like Alibaba or DHgate...or is it?
 
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Wunderbar said:
I see. I'm a bit perplexed on how these are sold on Amazon. Amazons not like Alibaba or DHgate...or is it?
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Money is money... Companies like Amazon, Ebay, et al, just claim that they are a third party and that they will try to be more attentive to the questionable knives, but then they will turn a blind eye.

Sales, regardless of how unscrupulous they may be, drive income...
 
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Hmmm. Funny thing how Amazon can say no to Automatic knives and other items but when there is copyright infringement it's another story.
I'm going to be very interested in hearing from Benchmade tomorrow.
 
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Wunderbar said:
Hmmm. Funny thing how Amazon can say no to Automatic knives and other items but when there is copyright infringement it's another story.
I'm going to be very interested in hearing from Benchmade tomorrow.
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Amazon, and other major tech companies, are far more interested in their political/social/moral stances than legality at this point. Selling a knife that is an obvious patent, or even copyright, infringement isn't as big a deal as selling a push dagger or automatic knife that could offend certain people in certain places or go against government mandates.
 
There is a bit of a yes, and going on there. Amazon is having a massive problem with third party sellers and faked goods. No way around it, stuff comes in and out of warehouses that often they don't even see. If it was only knives, it would be one thing, but its vitamins, supplements, cosmetics, toys.... the list of stuff that will harm people is far longer, and so knives get the short shift. Its not a morality thing, its a practical thing. I'm not saying they are right, but the realities are that you have to prioritize, and in the grand game who is going to get more pull, Nike or Benchmade? Quite a few tech sector folks are looking at Amazon hitting a crisis point within a couple years, either having to up prices, or change how they handle third party vendors, as its starting to hurt their bottom line, and cost them far too much. As it stands AWS is the only real profit they see, and that could get seriously hammered if the FTC decides that they hold too much of a monopoly on web serving (not likely, but could happen) It sucks for us, but in the game of dollars, we don't account for much.
 
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BBuser said:
^ What's "AWS" profit?
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Probably Amazon Web Store. Gadgetgeek is referring to third-party small-business sellers using Amazon as an e-commerce storefront. Pro: Small businesses have access to the international market. Con: There's not a whole lot of control over what said businesses do.
 
Amazon Web Services, sorry I should have clarified. A very large portion of the internet runs on Amazon servers, and its pretty much the main profit area. After that I think that Amazon prime and digital media sales is the other main profit generator. the retail end holds its own, but isn't the main driver, and internationally retail runs at a loss for them.
 
It's unfortunate that we see copies of brand name favorites on the market. With Ganzo and others, being overseas makes it really hard to stem the flow. I had, for awhile, an HK 14205 (Ganzo) clone that looked like the
Benchmade it was copied from. The look and finish was very good down to the Axis mechanism. You (and I) have to really know the product so we're not taken for a ride. I know this has been discussed both here and on the factory website - I wonder how many of these are sent to get a tune up only to get tossed instead. :rolleyes:
 
Oh been hearing about these here so looked up a couple on the flebay. I saw a couple that looked like the 940 and even the 940-1. So I guess the problem is copyright infringement on the axis lock. At least they don't name themselves falsely like the counterfeit Sebenzas on the fleabay which include false packaging and made in Idaho stamping. Those are blatantly labeled as "clones" but they're actually counterfeits. I've reported several to eBay but they don't take them down so they are explicitly complicit.

Looking at the Ganzos a non knife knut probably doesn't even know the $20 knife is a clone of a 940. That buyer was never going to spend $180 anyway. Maybe they'll like the design enough to buy the real one after the cheap one wears out or breaks.

I don't know where law enforcement is on this. I often see reports of stores raided for selling fake handbags and t-shirts. So why does eBay go scott free on blatant counterfeiting? The Ganzo cloning is much more subtle. All you can do is not buy them.

Edit: Has Benchmade brought a copyrights infringement case against Ganzo? It's a far different legal matter than when the whole product is counterfeit down to the fake CoA. Isn't Spyderco still in process against Kittery Trading Post?
 
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L.H.S said:
Amazon, and other major tech companies, are far more interested in their political/social/moral stances than legality at this point. Selling a knife that is an obvious patent, or even copyright, infringement isn't as big a deal as selling a push dagger or automatic knife that could offend certain people in certain places or go against government mandates.
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Funny how those same bleeding hearts don't boycott Amazon for the treatment of its workers. Because they derive value and convienence from Amazon they are willing to turn a blind eye.

So I guess rampant worker abuse is fine, but selling an auto knife is crossing the line. Think of the children!
 
It's just one step short of being as bad as all the fake Spydercos sold on Amazon. There is a Ganzo model that is an exact clone of the older Grip except with G10 scales. Amusingly it also has a clip that is a direct copy of the Spyderco hourglass. The Chinese really don't care when it comes to IP, if they can copy it, they will.

Bear in mind that country has been known to copy entire pieces of military hardware without permission. Not just guns, but more like aircraft and SAM systems.
 
The TOL lock? Never owned one but looks like an axis lock; maybe....doesn't work like one at all from what I've seen. Probably hard to call that a copy.
 
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There's an American company currently selling Ganzo copies of the HK knives for more than what the Benchmade version cost. They even claim to be responsible for designing them. They're already rather well known for putting handles on blade blanks and claiming they're handmade custom knives, and charging hundreds of dollars for them, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
 
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