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Axis Lock vertical play?
- Thread starter Fire Beard
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I agree all the way.
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Everybody has different standards. Same reason people get all up in arms when a thread comes up talking about fit and finish. Some say they have 100 plus with not a single issue while others say they bought four of the same model and all had issues.
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Yup , that's why I said what I said.
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Vininull, the Russian hard use YouTube knife tester, was beating on adamas and got it to develop vertical play. He took the knife apart and for a while couldn't understand what's causing it. Later he figured that a small indentation was made on the liner by the axis bar. The blade was simply pushing the lock up and that's where the axis dented the liner. This was big up and down play, but important to note the lock remained secure and usable. He damaged the knife while smacking the front portion of the handle (knife opened) on wood.
Perhaps due to varying tolerances the axis is allowed to move verticaly a tiny bit. It has to have some clearance so it doesn't wedge itself in and is easy to unlock. You guys should pinch the lock with fingers, press it forward and see if you can feel it move while trying to reproduce the play.
Perhaps due to varying tolerances the axis is allowed to move verticaly a tiny bit. It has to have some clearance so it doesn't wedge itself in and is easy to unlock. You guys should pinch the lock with fingers, press it forward and see if you can feel it move while trying to reproduce the play.
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Haha I have seen those videos recently. That guy is a savage during the tests.
Every one of my Benchmade's has up and down play to some extent. Adamas, Griptilian, Crooked River, HK 14715. What causes the up/down is the tolerance gap in regards to the pivot bolt, and the pivot hole in the blade. Some are tighter, and some are looser. An older Adamas I have, and the Crooked River are the worse. They practically rattle. The BM HK 14715 is the best. Almost solid. Open any of the blades, and hold it in your fingers while moving it up and down. You will feel that bit of play...or "tolerance gap" at the pivot as per Benchmade.
91bravo
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If those that have owned the same axis lock for years, they'll notice that the liners themselves get "dented" out from the axis bar. Once you can see a visual wallowed out section on the liners, on the top of the slot, then blade play is inevitable.
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Yep. Never experienced this with my half dozen Axis Benchmade knives. Oh well...I call BS on it being "normal"! Every Axis lock knife that I have ever owned has been rock solid. Even this old 720, that I just so happen to be carrying today, has been beat on ( literally) and even it has zero up and down play.
EDIT : developing some play over time with wear is one thing but new out of the box this should not be. If I wanted blade play I would buy a SOG.
The liners will only get these dents from negative impact to the spine of the blade which causes the bar to hit into the liners, this is abuse, and all locks suffer damage of some degree with abuse like that. No denting will come from normal use of the knife. I have some very old ones that have been used and flicked a million times with zero dents, zero play etc. The micro vertical play people complain about is on 70% of all benchmades i've had, it's a non issue in terms of function, it's only annoying to peoples OCD. The bar usually nests in once the steel contact areas are mated and in sometimes just goes away. There is no way you can notice it unless you search for it trying to wiggle the blade from near the tip.
91bravo
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I've had a few Benchmades, some for over 10 years, and some of them have these worn in spots on the liners. I use my thumb on the thumb ramp quite a bit when cutting as well. I'm not afraid to cut things with my knives, but I don't abuse them either.
Fire Beard
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You’re exactly right. In terms of function, the very minimal blade play is absolutely a non-issue. I started this thread to hear about others’ experiences with the Axis Lock since I’ve only ever owned a couple of Benchmades. On the KSF site, it says this is normal. Due to the nature of this lock, maybe it is (although so far, some say it’s normal and some say it’s not). Admittedly, it does bother me a bit, but most people probably wouldn’t even notice it. I’m definitely not worried about the lock ever failing. Just odd that BM gets a pass on this while other makers would be thrown to the wolves.
All that said, I love the knife and won’t let this small issue ruin my enjoyment of it. Thanks for the replies, everyone.
Benchmade was my all time favorite for years, and I struggled with their poor QC issues. I’ve had over 20, and about 75% of my axis lock models have a very small amount of vertical blade play.
With their higher prices and poor quality, I’ve stopped buying them about 1.5 years ago.
Hurts me more than them, but you get sooooo much more quality for your money from Spyderco, ZT, Chris Reeve, and a few others. I still love their designs, but I refuse to buy another Benchmade.
With their higher prices and poor quality, I’ve stopped buying them about 1.5 years ago.
Hurts me more than them, but you get sooooo much more quality for your money from Spyderco, ZT, Chris Reeve, and a few others. I still love their designs, but I refuse to buy another Benchmade.
I understand, the thing is tho, sometimes it's the nature of the locking mechanism. Take liner/frame locks for instance, by design as you push and pull on the blade vertically the play will be determined by many factors. The angle of the mating between lock bar and tang, the friction level (ti on steel / steel on steel etc.) the geometry of the tang cut out - radius or no radius, steep or shallow etc. There are just so many factors that can make it all a bit of a crap shoot sometimes. Almost ALL of the time it's a give and take situation, you might have no play cos the titanium is wedged hard against the steel with some lock stick but in turn you're wearing away your lock bar faster. Maybe a small bit of slip or lock rock with steel on steel but it won't wear much but instead just slide around. What is acceptable to you/us is all on our individual personalities, it's a topic affected 80% by personal preferences. Personally i reserve most of my rage for T6 torx screws being used on "tough knives" Anyways, i'll leave it there cos it can go on forever
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I posted this in your other post, but: I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that most people's issues with vertical play is due to the pivot being slightly too small, not to the axis lock bar not seating properly. I've had several Benchmades with this issue, including an Adamas. Benchmade appears to ship out a number of knives with pivot barrels that are slightly undersized, which allow the blade to shift even while the lock bar is making full, adjusting contact with the liners and blade tang. Hold the blade while it's partially open and try to force it towards and away from the pivot; if it moves, then your pivot barrel is probably undersized, and there's nothing you can do to fix it short of sending it back to Benchmade.
Professor
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It could be a number of things. My large Grip had vertical play due to the partial liners moving up and down inside the frame. I used epoxy around the edges of the liners to make them seat tightly in the frame which took care of the issue. No issues with Mini Grips due to the full liners and multiple screw-down points for them (front and back, clip screws).
One thing I have noticed, however, with newer BM Axis models. If you compare an established model's Axis bar liner cutouts, like on a Grip, large or small, or a 940, to a Crooked River's, you'll notice something - something I think may be an issue. The Grip's Axis bar when in the open and locked position rides about 70% up the blade ramp and has a visible 20-30% more travel space in the liner cutouts. New models don't. The Axis bar seats almost all the way at the end of the liner cutouts, with barely any travel-ability left. My theory (and it's just a theory) is that the Grip's lock geometry permits both a long-term "wearing in" of the lock, as well as, and potentially more importantly, a tighter overall lockup, absorbing any "micro-slop" that might exist due to less-than-stellar tolerances with stop pins, pivot pins, etc.
I noticed this most prominently on my large and small HK Axis models. Both had vertical blade play, even after substantial break-in. I'm not sure why this change occurred in regard to the Axis bar seating, but I'm not sure it was for the best. Just my .02. Best to all.
Prof.
One thing I have noticed, however, with newer BM Axis models. If you compare an established model's Axis bar liner cutouts, like on a Grip, large or small, or a 940, to a Crooked River's, you'll notice something - something I think may be an issue. The Grip's Axis bar when in the open and locked position rides about 70% up the blade ramp and has a visible 20-30% more travel space in the liner cutouts. New models don't. The Axis bar seats almost all the way at the end of the liner cutouts, with barely any travel-ability left. My theory (and it's just a theory) is that the Grip's lock geometry permits both a long-term "wearing in" of the lock, as well as, and potentially more importantly, a tighter overall lockup, absorbing any "micro-slop" that might exist due to less-than-stellar tolerances with stop pins, pivot pins, etc.
I noticed this most prominently on my large and small HK Axis models. Both had vertical blade play, even after substantial break-in. I'm not sure why this change occurred in regard to the Axis bar seating, but I'm not sure it was for the best. Just my .02. Best to all.
Prof.
Professor
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I'll add that the indentation issue with batoning an Axis lock model is spot on. Once those indentations are formed, the liners have to be replaced for it to ever be right again. My Son banged on an Adamas as described above several years back and it developed irreparable up and down play. I sent it to BM not realizing what the cause was, and they very graciously replaced the liners, but let me know exactly what had happened so that I could steer away from that issue in the future.
Sorry to bring back an older thread but I have to agree here that the lack of travel space on the newer models is likely causing vertical play issues.
I'll say I've had 150+ Benchmade knives over the years and this crooked river is the only one I've ever had issues with. There was vertical and horizontal play even when the pivot is so tight you can hardly open the knife. I sent it back to Benchmade and they replaced the liners, springs, washers, stop pin, axis bar and screws. It had Wonderful action but still slight vertical and tremendous horizontal play. I've tried everything including polishing the washers and the ramp on the tang of the blade. I can now tighten the pivot to the point that the horizontal play almost disappears but then the action gets funky, and by funky I mean the action is tight at the start of deployment then free as the blade gets to around 90° and then tight again as it nears 180° at lockup. I've pretty much had it with this knife at this point. There's clearly something not right and I'm guessing it's the blade geometry coupled with the axis travel issue or the pivot is so small in ratio to the blade hole that is causing issues. I really wish there was a resource or some transparency from Benchmade regarding these kinds of issues.