Axis Lock ??

oupa

oupa

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Sep 25, 2001
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I am a bit sceptical about Benchmade’s Axis lock.
I have seen quite a few posts about broken “Omega” springs.
The method of construction with the spring between the liner and scales is begging for dirt, fluff and other pocket related debris to jam the mechanism.
It would be a real problem cleaning out this “pocket”. Especially as it has to contain a certain amount of lubricant – thus turning the whole lot into grinding paste.
Combined with the BM policy of not selling springs to their customers (you have to return the knife to them for fitting), makes a risky investment for people like me who do not live is the USA.
 
"I have seen quite a few posts about broken “Omega” springs. "

Not compared to the number of Axis locks sold, nor compared to failing linerlocks, for example. The Axis lock is also redundantly sprung, something other locks just aren't. ONe missing spring doesn't stop the lock from working.

"The method of construction with the spring between the liner and scales is begging for dirt, fluff and other pocket related debris to jam the mechanism."

The Axis locks are designed with holes in the liners around these pockets so they clean themselves fairly well. Hiking through fine and coarse sand and quicksand with an Axis lock this summer absolutely failed to jam the mechanism. The pivot got a little grouchy, but worked just fine. In daily care, some lint may develop in the area enclosed by the omega spring that does not see "action". Had some myself. No effect on the operation of the knife.

"It would be a real problem cleaning out this “pocket”. Especially as it has to contain a certain amount of lubricant – thus turning the whole lot into grinding paste. "

No lubricant at all. They don't even rub there or touch. It's just operating space. So no paste. Easy to clean with running water or a blast of compressed air or WD-40 or similar. As you seem to have no compunction about disassembly, it's even easier to clean that way.


"Combined with the BM policy of not selling springs to their customers (you have to return the knife to them for fitting), makes a risky investment for people like me who do not live is the USA."

Then don't buy one. No one cares, really.

If you had done some better research, you would also see posts explaining how to fabricate your own springs from piano wire if one were ever to fail. There's one on the Benchmade forum right now.

Phil
 
Although there have been some isolated broken Omega springs, the problem is apparently very rare.

Also, it appears that a good dose of running water cleans out the lock area with no problem.

I used to have some similar concerns, but they proved to be unfounded. Don't fear the Axis lock.:)
 
Oupa, I thought you once stated over on the Benchmade Forum that you were a big fan of the axis lock. Or, more specifically, the Griptilian. What happened to change your mind? Or aren't you the same Oupa(dirk)?
 
Rockspyder mate,
Glad to hear from you.
Yes I do own a Griptillian and I really like the knife.
The Axis lock does foul up on occasion though.
It is very smooth when clean, but I have gotten into the habit of carrying an Emerson – because I can take it apart and clean it once a week.

As for Phatch (Phil) –
Why write aggressive,rude comments like this:

“Then don't buy one. No one cares, really.

If you had done some better research, you would also see posts explaining how to fabricate your own springs from piano wire if one were ever to fail.”

I have done my research.
IMHO your attitude/remarks are uncalled for.
 
I have to support oupa in his complaint about rude remarks. They should have no place in these forums. :(
 
Wah:rolleyes:

Anyway, on-topic:
I dislike the fact that the Axis lock gets gunked up, too. I've actually had mine full of mud, and the lock still functioned, though, so I guess I'll live. A framelock is simpler, and easier to clean, but my 710HS has been doing well with a blast of compressed air, running water, and a little WD-40. I do pretty much the same thing with any folder I carry at work, so it's far from enough to turn me off to the Axis lock (it pretty much rules, IMO, except for CRK's framelock).
 
I'll stick by my statements.

Returning a knife is an issue no matter where you live. Everyone has transit time both ways plus the repair time. Simple fact. My favorite Axis lock is out of the country right now for some special attention from Normark. It's a choice every owner of every knife has to make.

As a regular reader of Benchmade's Forum's, I know oupa is there too.
The info he wanted was there where he also is. As he already explained he was happy to disassemble on his own, those two items are all he needed to be happy about the springs.

Oupa's a fine guy and a good contributor. Mistakes happen.

And even though I have hashed out my statements here again for clarity, I'll happily apologize for all concerned.

I'm sorry. And I do mean it.

The Axis lock rules.

Phil
 
While I haven't tried mine out with mud in it :eek:, I do occassionally notice (by looking, not by feel) that lint can and will get in there, and pretty much stay. But, it takes no more than a stiff puff of air to get it out.

Incidentally, I have revelled in some of Oupa's posts over at the Benchmade Forum. Wish I saw more of them. He is a good guy.
 
oupa: The springs are reliable, though as you've noticed one occasionally fails. The good news is, even when a spring fails, the knife continues to work for a while, so it's not as if you're immediately stuck without a knife. But the bad news is, you'll need to send it back, and doing so would be a drag.

In the end, taking a small risk of spring breakage is, to me, worth having what I believe to be the overall best lock around. So far, I haven't seen dirt be a problem with this lock, the problem of lube building up in the spring pockets is non-existent, and in any case everything is easily flushed out. I use Militech-1, and formerly used Tuff Glide, with no problem.

Overall, except for the rare case of spring breakage, you are worrying about things that simply don't seem to have cropped up as problems in real use. This lock has been around for, what, 2 years now? If the mechanism was easily getting dirty, jammed, turning lube into grinding paste, etc., we'd know about it by now!

Joe
 
what I believe to be the overall best lock around.
Click to expand...

Hello Mr. Talmadge,

Could you elaborate on why the axis lock is the best? I am just curious about this. From my very limited experience with folders, I have come to prefer the frame lock or liner lock, because they open more easily and smoothly than the other types I have tried. For example, I find the rolling lock on my REKAT Carnivor to be rather stiff and gritty. However, I have not tried a knife with axis lock.
 
Mr Beck,

I agree with Mr Talmidge that the Axis Lock is one of the finest locks around. IMHO the only other lock in its class for smoothness and reliability is the Frame Lock.

Liner Locks have proven to be much more sensitive to execution in terms of reliability than either the Axis or Frame Lock.

Between the Axis Lock and the Frame Lock there are some tradeoffs.

The Frame Lock is simpler and easier to keep clean than the Axis Lock.

The Axis Lock biases the Blade closed making it much safer for tip up carry.
 
The Axis lock is very good. It would be better if you could field strip it for cleaning.

I wonder if the BM folks could do that?

Ben
 
Originally posted by W.T. Beck


Hello Mr. Talmadge,

Could you elaborate on why the axis lock is the best? I am just curious about this. From my very limited experience with folders, I have come to prefer the frame lock or liner lock, because they open more easily and smoothly than the other types I have tried. For example, I find the rolling lock on my REKAT Carnivor to be rather stiff and gritty. However, I have not tried a knife with axis lock.
Click to expand...

Okay, you caught me overstating things. I do believe the framelock is in the same class as the axis, for example. There are some tradeoffs, as Sdouglas mentioned. For example: framelock has the same problem that liner locks have in keeping the blade closed, and hence you could have it open up in your pocket (and people do). Axis lock keeps the blade closed with spring pressure. In addition, axis lock is not at all susceptible to torquing, whereas frame locks can be (depending on execution obviously), especially torquing in teh direction where your fingers are working against the lockup instead of reinforcing it. On the other hand, the framelocks simplicity can't be overlooked. In the end, from what I can tell, both are reliable, strong lock formats.

I don't consider liner locks to even be in the sae class due to exactly the reasons SDouglas mentioned -- the difficulty in consistently manufacturing a reliable liner lock (not strong; reliable). Like many people on these forums, I don't believe the liner lock is suitable for anything but gents' folders, not hard using folders. There are obviously many other people that disagree. But I've been able to get too many liner locks fail for me to feel comfortable with them any longer.

As far as smoothness, REKAT is famous for gritty rolling locks. This is a function of REKAT's QA, not the rolling lock itself. Pat Crawford puts out rolling locks that are smooth. Every axis lock I've ever used was also very smooth. But realize that the axis won't be as smooth as a framelock or liner lock, because there's constant spring pressure on the blade, which is also what distinguishes the axis from those other formats as far as keeping the blade safely closed. The framelock and linerlock only present some lateral pressure against the blade on the ball mechanism, so it will be smoother.

Joe
 
I have come to prefer the frame lock or liner lock, because they open more easily and smoothly than the other types I have tried.
Click to expand...

They also close more easily and smoothly, sometimes at the most inopportune (and unexpected) moments. :eek: ;)
 
I have developed a technique for relieving the spring tension on the Axis Lock when opening that results in an even smoother opening than a Liner or Frame Lock.
 
Thanks Mr. Talmadge and others for all of the information on the Axis lock. As luck would have it, I stopped by a gun shop today and found they sell Benchmade knives, and got to handle one of the models with the Axis lock. You guys are certainly right in saying that the Axis lock is very smooth - far better than the rolling lock on my Carnivor.

One last question: granted the REKAT rolling locks could stand some smoothing up, what is your opinion of the reliability of the rolling lock? I think I have seen some posts about the lock failing on the SIFU models.
 
WT:

To be fair, when only one company manufactures a particular lock format, it's difficult to say whether any problems are inherent to the lock format, or are caused by QA problems at that particular company. Certainly, REKAT tries hard but their fit and finish has never been stellar, IMO. I've heard too many reports of problems to consider the rolling lock quite at the same level as the axis or frame lock. I still do carry my Sifu occasionally, so I do consider it reliable enough. For all I know, Pat Crawford's version of the rolling lock is just as sound, if not more so, than the axis, but there's not enough around to draw any conclusions.

Joe
 
Thanks again, Mr. Talmadge,

Well I guess I have had a bit of unusual luck in ordering a Benchmade AFCK. I ordered the old 800HS model at a clearance price prior to reading your comments on the superiority of the axis lock. I was regretting not having waited for the new model, when lo and behold the retailer notified me that he is out of the model I ordered, and can find no more of them. For once I am not disappointed I missed out on a good deal!

So now I will just wait for better availability and price on the new model with the axis lock.
 
Hey W.T., you might want to go over to this thread and check it out, for a good look at the axis AFCK.
 
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