B&M store etiquette.

K

kutch133

Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Messages
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Do any of you who go in B&M stores and handle their knives feel any obligation to buy at the retail prices or do you shop the internet for the best buy.
 
I feel no obligation, but I prefer to give them bussiness if there prices are reasonable, since I know it's hard to make a store work. Also I feel like it's good to keep money in my comunity. Not that I don't want to support online dealers.
 
Absolutely. If you want brick & mortar knife stores to exist, you have to support them. That doesn't mean I buy a knife every time I into the local store, but I do try and buy something every now and then.
 
Hi. It's a situation I've experienced and thought about. The short answer is no, I feel no obligation to the store to buy from them because I handled their stuff. I do so routinely. I do occasionally buy from my local B&M store but only if their prices are within range of what I can really get it for on the net. Case in point: store sells decorated large Sebenza for about $600, Online I get it for under $400. Am I wrong? I don't think so. $200 is $200 I can use in other ways or for other toys. I want to pay for the product, not the college education of the store owners daughter. If their price is reasonably within range then I will buy it there, no problem, I get the even more instant gratification. But a markup of 50-100-200% is not something I'll support. As for the comunity, my local is part of a chain store and none of that money will stay local, so that logic won't say me in my case. But yes, I do go there and check out the lastest models, TRY to discuss features, analyse them etc.
But you got to look out for yourself, if you ever need a favor, the chain store is not going to do one for you, so the "favor" of paying much more than the item is worth is not particularly meritorious, unless you are just wealthy and being generous...just my $0.02
 
I do not feel an abligation to buy a knife from a brick and mortar store. If the prices are in line (I will spend more because I know that B&M stores have a higher overhead) I will occasionally pick up a knife at one. I do tend to buy all my accessories and books from B&M stores as well.

Quiet Priest, I can understand the 100-200% you mentioned, but are you saying that if a knife cost the store $100.00 you would not pay $150.00 for it? Most stores, unless they do large volume, need that kind of profit to make it worthwhile being in business. If you are a good customer they may be able to shave a little off of that, but not much.

I am not trying to give you a hard time, just wondering what you think a fair profit margin would be.
 
I think that the ideal situation is to find a brick and mortar store that has competitive prices and shop there. That is what I do by supporting my local store, Grand Prairie Knives in Troy Illinois. Realistically, this is not an option for everyone. Frankly, if stores want to be competitive with the net, they might want to check their business practices, for instance, why locate in an expensive mall location?
 
Hey Guys....

If the store has good deals on blades I will buy them no doubt...

The problem is finding a store that has decent prices...

Here in Canada the stores that I have been in that sell knives,first of all it's a problem fining anything Really decent..

Run of the mill Gerbers,Buck,Sharade are easy to find..Spydercos,Benchmade and the like are more difficault...

When you do find them,,their prices are Far out of reach for the average knife buyer..

I understand they have to make money,,but I won't pay that kind of price...If there prices were lower they would sell more and not have to wait for that Big sell to pay the bills...

Most of the people I've talked to in B&M stores,,even the owners know Very little about the knives they sell..They could be selling washing machines for all they care..

I do like dealing with dealers such as Murray Hadey, Mike Kyle, and Jeff Cheatham, and the many others I deal with and have dealt with. They know Exactly what they are selling and know about the products..

I don't have alot of money to spend on blades,,so I spend wisely...

ttyle

Eric...
 
I'll consider 25% a fair amount. It's alot more than I'll give a car dealer. Knife costs the store $100, I'll pay $125 for it.

Here,s something interesting: I wanted a WilliamHenry Spearpoint woodburl handle knife, store had it for $269.95 Internet has it for the same price, I bought it at the store. I've heard of makers insisting on only one price for their knives, a price which refelcts value and includes standardized reasonable profit. I'm all for that.

Like Anthony said, if they want to be competitive with the internet, a widely accessible and powerful resource (A great equalizer), they should reconsider their business practices. The stores around me are not Mom and Pop shops, they are annonymous, uncaring, and insensitive corporations.

Without the resources of the internet we'd be nothing but victims of the corporation. I like the idea that the field is leveled on my behalf by it. That $200 difference I mentioned earlier can just as well serve me & my familie's quality of life rather than the CEO of the Acme knife co ( not a real co that I know of...) I think I'm a fair guy, that entitles me to seek fairnes toward me too.

Generally, the stores I have seen have at least a 50% markup, sometimes 75%, it's not against the law, but not an obligation to the consumer either.
 
Well guys, I kinda felt the need to reply to this as in I work in a B&M store. Let me start by saying that I know our prices are somewhat expensive (MSRP on most of the stuff) but this is basically what we have to do, I have talked to the owner several times and asked if we could be more competitive, but she is somewhat unwilling to change (we are also in a local mall, so this does not really add to the fact -- also, let me add that I believe my manager is somewhat scared of computers). This is also increasingly different with a new sportsman's shop that has opened up at a near by outlet mall because they can and do buy in bulk, and sell there knives below MSRP (still not the price that you or I can get of the forums and Internet).

Its incredibly tuff to sell knives and go to work happy when I get people who come into the store, handle a knife and rudely leave mumbling under there breath, "Well I can get this for X here." It really pisses me off because I can probably get it cheaper than them, and they think that they are so special (maybe stinginess is a sense :) ). I have had people come in and say that they would like me to hold a knife for them, and that they really like it and are going to get it, just to come back in a few days, and say that there not interested. For example, I have had people turn around a few days later and say that they just got it from 1SKS, and they are no longer interested in the knife on hold. I have had people go into detail about 1SKS (and other Internet stores) and how I should check them out because that they have really good deals ... well I hate to burst there bubble, but I am familiar with the owner of 1SKS, and the're great guys, but that does not change the fact that you wasted some of my time and patience. Anyway, I am really getting off topic, and beginning to ramble on about my own personal dislikes, so I will just add one thing. I try to support my local stores as well (not just the one I work in, but others - I don't do it as much as I should), but otherwise they will go out of business, already, in the last few years, I have noticed a few local shops go under. I try to compensate this by giving the customer as much knowledge as I know about the knife (which is a lot considering that I was a knife nut before I got the job, and that alone qualified me for it). I try to best describe different handle materials, and the composition of different steels (trying not to confuse them with basic metallurgy), explaining blade shapes, grinds and angles. Who knows how long we will be in business, and maybe B&M stores should lower there prices, but who am I to say?
mmtmatrix
 
When was the last time your favorite .com called you up and said, "We just got that new model you're waiting for in. They're in very short supply. The factory only sent us half of our order. They're selling like crazy. But, there's no need for you to hurry. I've put one aside for you since I know that you want one. Come on in whenever you're in the neighborhood."

When was the last time your favorite .com called you and said, "There was a guy in here a few minutes ago who was trying to sell some knives. A few of 'em looked like the sort of thing you'd be interested in. You know, we only sell new knives, but I got this guy's phone number for you. It's 555-1234. I told him you might call."

When was the last time that your favorite 1-800 number called you up and said, "We were cleaning out some of the darker corners of the back room yesterday and found some old stock, still new, in the box, from years and years ago. You might be interested."

When was the last time that that the operator on your favorite 1-800 number took the time to chat with you, get to know you, and find out what you're interested in. Do they give you good advice? Do they tell you about the time that James Lile came into the store and sold them some knives? Do they share the latest "insider" info with you?

Last time you ordered from a .com, did they send five of the same knife along so that you could examine them all and pick out the one you want and send the rest back? I doubt it.

B&M's give you a lot of extra value for a few extra dollars.
 
I would love to buy at B&M stores. Whats better than instant gratification? I could handle the product, check for F&F and walk away with my new knife. This all comes with a cost. I can regularly purchase knives off the net for as much as 45-50% less. If I am serious about a B&M knife I might ask if the price is negotiable. Since I work in retail I am careful not become one of those "price grinders". Those guys who push and push for a price match. If I feel the price is close and fair I will buy it. I also make a point not to waste the clerks time knowing I will buy from the net.
It is tough though...don't we all want lots of knives? With the information available here and at other sites the net seems the way to go.
Cheers,
Gord.
 
OK Quiet Priest, I just wanted to know what you thought was fair. I can tell you that the average store would soon go out of business if they sold their products at 25% above cost. The costs of doing business would eat most if not all of that and in some cases would actually be higher than that.

What chuck posted is right on. You get so many advantages from a B&M store that if their prices are within reason you should support them. Hey, the internet dealers are there and you can certainly get the price you want from them. If you have a problem with the knife you must send it back and wait for them to send you a new one. You do not have the opertunity to just drive to the store and exchange it. You do not have the chance to go through a few knives to make sure you get the best one, you get what they ship you. Along with all the other things that Chuck mentioned, I think there are many good reasons to support B&M stores.
 
The people I have no respect for are the ones that think it is OK to go to a store and try out a product, get all the information that they can from the person selling the product and then leave to buy it from the internet having had no intention of buying this product from the store in the first place. These people are self centered leaches who think that anything that is best for them is OK to do and to heck with the fact that they are wasting someones time and resources.

I am not saying that anyone here would do that, but there are many people that do exactly this.
 
I do think what Chuck mentioned about the sales dynamics of a local shop are very accurate. Personally I've found some my best pieces just through doing some business over the years with local Cutlery & Firearms shops.., and letting them know I do collect -Balisongs. Since I live in So California, obviously these establishements don't order and carry this type of knife, but a little friendliness, story-swapping, and purchasing a few gifts ever so often goes a long way given these establishments will have customers that venture in with something to "trade" ~~> that I want! :)


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
I'm an impatient man.

I place a lot of value on Immediate Knife Gratification -- and if I can get the knife I want at a price that approximates a reasonable mark-up on the mail-order price plus shipping, I'll buy it without hesitation.

I won't pay full retail, though. I don't have that kind of money to throw away.
 
I have a whole other dilema. I have a local B&M store that has always had excellant pricing and a great selection. My beef is with the idiot salesperson. He doesn't seem to know crap about the stores product, and he's extremely pushy. He will actually say, before handing me a display knife, "wanna go ahead and wrap that up?" in a sarcastic tone of voice. I haven't even handled the darn thing yet and he's pushing a sale down my throat. I have tried to reason with him on his sales approach, giving him suggestions for improvement, I worked at a Ford dealership for three years so I know a thing or two about this subject. He also follows me around the store, as if I would stoop so low as to steal something? The worst part is, every time I decide to go back to the store, he acts like he doesn't remember who I am. Believe me, this store doesn't have floor traffic knocking the doors down. This is why I order online, I'm fed up with poor salesmanship regardless the price.
 
Hey Kutch, you posted the question and have received a few viewpoints and opinions. What were your thoughts or tendencies about it all? Would you/do you feel bad about checking out the product in the store and if you know the price is 50-100% over internet price saying thanks and leaving to order online?

People handle things in stores from shoes to cars all the time without buying right there and then, why should knifenuts be exempt from "checking it out".

Like Razor I like the immediate graification with knives, but if the store price is way off I can get a good price and overnite shipping for just $25 more. I do that with customs. Why is it we will negotiate bigtime on a car. but feel we have to accept the msrp at the mall?

About "when was the last time" I have bought some things regularly from my local knife store ( when they have an item finally on reasonable sale)...they don't do any of that. You buy they ring you up and thats the end of our relationship. They (the corporate store) have never looked to cozy up to me, or most other customers there. So they make cost and price the singular issue. That being the case it's every man for his own dollar.
 
Originally posted by KWM
I can tell you that the average store would soon go out of business if they sold their products at 25% above cost. The costs of doing business would eat most if not all of that and in some cases would actually be higher than that.
Click to expand...
Yes.
My local gunshop (the only B&M store I buy knives from) has great prices-just as good as internet dealers. The owner can do that, because knives are just a side item for him. I asked him what kind of profit margin he makes, out of curiosity (known him for years, so this was not a "rude" question). He marks them up 40% over his cost. Said his profit on the knives is actually higher on the dollar than it is on firearms. But he doesn't sell nearly as many knives....
I looked at the same knife at his shop, and at the mall.
Gunshop: $112.95
Mall knife shop: $214.95
Retail: $170.00
No...I don't buy at the mall.
 
I'm in NYC where a good knife store is rarer than hen's teeth. The only place I go to is Paragon Sports on 18TH St. I go to look at their customs, and they usually have a nice selection and the sales people are knowledgeable. Still I tell them from the start, "I'm not buying just looking" and it never fails they'll say, "It's no problem what are you looking at?" and they'll take out some knives and we'll talk. Still there's no way I would pay their prices. I can't remember the last knife I bought in a retail store. I don't think it's my responsibility to keep stores in business, it's their job to get my business and to keep. As far as Online dealers only giving better prices and not the service of a B&M that hasn't been my experiance. I don't buy a lot of production knives and some of the ones I wanted have been hard to get, the dealers I've dealt with have given me far better service than I'd ever expect from a store.

Just my 2¢
 
There are stores that sell decent knives in NYC? Guess I'll have to go walk down to 18th street at some point (what avenue is it on?)
Of course with Manhattan markups added to retail markups a zytel endura probably costs $120


Adam
 
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