Its hard for me to say what I would do because there are NO knife stores close to where I live. The closest I can come to a knife store is a few gun shops and hardware stores that basically carry that Paki crap and Wal-Mart which at least now carries a few Kershaw knives. But, if there were a knife store, I would give them some business if they were reasonably priced. If they were pricegouging, I would not buy from them but I would only look and not handle the merchandise.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
B&M store etiquette.
- Thread starter kutch133
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2000
- Messages
- 3,278
chuck sayz:
thats what i like about the B&M stores around here.they are usually pretty knowledgeable,friendly,and patient. when i want to examen several of the same ones to make sure i get what i want,they dont mind a bit...especially at my favorite.
speaking of which,my little brother bought 200 bucks worth of knives today....he's worse about it than i am!!!
(gerber yari, cryocera ceramic kitchen knife,and a kershaw scallion,which quickly became mine 
)
thats what i like about the B&M stores around here.they are usually pretty knowledgeable,friendly,and patient. when i want to examen several of the same ones to make sure i get what i want,they dont mind a bit...especially at my favorite.
speaking of which,my little brother bought 200 bucks worth of knives today....he's worse about it than i am!!!
(gerber yari, cryocera ceramic kitchen knife,and a kershaw scallion,which quickly became mine )- Joined
- Apr 18, 1999
- Messages
- 328
In Houston, TX, where I live, there are few b&M there are very few knife shops. Those that do exist carry little in the way of inventory (a comon phenonomen in Houston) and have high prices. I always point out these facts to the store, but alas, they do not change.
- Joined
- Sep 30, 1999
- Messages
- 4,229
Uranium, Paragon's is om 18th and Broadway. Knifecase is on the second floor right at the top of the stairs. They mostly carry customs and you are right about the Manhattan markup. They are very friendly though and some of the people are even knowledgable.
There's also JT's Sport Shop in Port Jervis,NY. Good selection and JT is good to talk to.
Dave
There's also JT's Sport Shop in Port Jervis,NY. Good selection and JT is good to talk to.
Dave
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
My comments were not directed at those that go into a knife shop to visit, talk knives and check out what the shop has to offer. Especially if they tell the folks working at the store that they really aren't interested in abuying a knife, but just want to look. At that point, if the people that work there are nice enough to let you handle the knives and spend time with you, that is up to them.
The people I was refering to are the ones that go into a store and tell the people there that they are looking to buy a knife knowing they have no intention of purchasing from the store they are in. These people use the knowledge of the staff so that they will be more educated internet purchasers and are doing nothing but wasting the time of these knife store workers.
If you are not planning to buy a knife from the store, tell them that. If they are still willing to help you out, great, they are a nice bunch. Just don't go in and BS the staff to get the info that you want.
The people I was refering to are the ones that go into a store and tell the people there that they are looking to buy a knife knowing they have no intention of purchasing from the store they are in. These people use the knowledge of the staff so that they will be more educated internet purchasers and are doing nothing but wasting the time of these knife store workers.
If you are not planning to buy a knife from the store, tell them that. If they are still willing to help you out, great, they are a nice bunch. Just don't go in and BS the staff to get the info that you want.
Daniel Dorn
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 1999
- Messages
- 5,318
I got to visit a B&M store this past weekend, and it was one of the most pleasant times I've had purchasing a knife. It was probably the store to which Maurice refers to; A.G.Russell, in Springdale, Arkansas. They have below retail prices, and on the products marketed solely by them, there really is nothing to compare prices to. I have purchased over $400 worth of knives from them, and I never fail to stop by whenever I'm in town. The people there are just great, and I've never left the shop disappointed in any way, other than wishing I had more money.
Here in Kansas City is a totally different story. The one shop that I know of charges 50% OVER retail on everything. They have a great selection, and I do stop by now and then to take a look at the new stuff out there, but I don't think I could ever purchase any knives from them, unless it is something cheap to begin with. For example, the Kershaw chive is $50, and the Spyderco Native is almost $70. Nice place to window shop, but SHEESH! They do carry a large selection of Martial arts related things, so I may just pick up a Bo staff, or something, just because KWM has made me feel guilty
DD
P.S. If you read this Maurice, let me know if you want to get together sometime when I'm in town. We could hook up with "The Magician" sometime, and talk knives.
Here in Kansas City is a totally different story. The one shop that I know of charges 50% OVER retail on everything. They have a great selection, and I do stop by now and then to take a look at the new stuff out there, but I don't think I could ever purchase any knives from them, unless it is something cheap to begin with. For example, the Kershaw chive is $50, and the Spyderco Native is almost $70. Nice place to window shop, but SHEESH! They do carry a large selection of Martial arts related things, so I may just pick up a Bo staff, or something, just because KWM has made me feel guilty
DD
P.S. If you read this Maurice, let me know if you want to get together sometime when I'm in town. We could hook up with "The Magician" sometime, and talk knives.
Double Edge Dave
Moderator and Gold Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 1999
- Messages
- 1,379
We are lucky to have The Safe And Knife Company in nearby Crystal, MN. Their prices are good and the atmosphere is very relaxed.They have a great selection too. I like to handle something before I buy it. This is to make sure I really want it and that the piece itself is of good quality. It is true that most online companies allow returns, but it is a hassle and you end up paying freight both ways.
Jesse at SAKC is extremely knowlegable and is happy to just talk knives in general, if not busy with other clients. He also looks out for me on new stuff he knows I want. They also have a good consignment program. It is a wonderful thing to have a "home" knife store. If I have paid any more for a given item,it has come back to me in intangible ways, such as good advice, good selection and the ability to handle items before laying down the cash. I have always done business with online stores and will continue to do so, especially on customs, if I can ever afford them again.But the knife realm would be a lot sorrier place without good B+M stores. For that reason, they will get the lions share of my business.
People who abuse the privelege by using the B+M stores for extensive research just to turn around and order on line are scum!
David
Jesse at SAKC is extremely knowlegable and is happy to just talk knives in general, if not busy with other clients. He also looks out for me on new stuff he knows I want. They also have a good consignment program. It is a wonderful thing to have a "home" knife store. If I have paid any more for a given item,it has come back to me in intangible ways, such as good advice, good selection and the ability to handle items before laying down the cash. I have always done business with online stores and will continue to do so, especially on customs, if I can ever afford them again.But the knife realm would be a lot sorrier place without good B+M stores. For that reason, they will get the lions share of my business.
People who abuse the privelege by using the B+M stores for extensive research just to turn around and order on line are scum!
David
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2000
- Messages
- 3,278
and yes,it was ag russell 
great place to buy knives.
theres a few others around here,but they dont have as wide a variety,and very few customs...( outdoor america,ozark armory, uncle sams safari outfitters,etc,etc)
yeah,next time your nearby,drop me an e-mail.
-mo
great place to buy knives.
theres a few others around here,but they dont have as wide a variety,and very few customs...( outdoor america,ozark armory, uncle sams safari outfitters,etc,etc)
yeah,next time your nearby,drop me an e-mail.
-mo
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2000
- Messages
- 88
David --
What sort of brands does SAKC carry? Any customs? Jeez, can't believe I haven't heard of them. I think I'll have to do a little shopping this weekend!
I've bought a few blades from the B&M in Southdale mall and enjoy talking with the guys there. The two that are usually working are very knowledgeable and polite (even when I ask to see a bunch of knives). But I do a good deal of purchasing from them so it's all good. The prices are higher than .com's but it's that whole instant gratification thing that keeps me comin back.
What sort of brands does SAKC carry? Any customs? Jeez, can't believe I haven't heard of them. I think I'll have to do a little shopping this weekend!
I've bought a few blades from the B&M in Southdale mall and enjoy talking with the guys there. The two that are usually working are very knowledgeable and polite (even when I ask to see a bunch of knives). But I do a good deal of purchasing from them so it's all good. The prices are higher than .com's but it's that whole instant gratification thing that keeps me comin back.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2000
- Messages
- 344
Did that all last week. Of course, just like in any business repeat customers get more consideration than someone that called once 6 months ago...
Did that too - I can't count the number of times I've referred people to other people, or to the forums if I couldn't serve them the best.
Hmmmm, did that as well recently. I've got a short list of people I call for stuff like that.
Yep, hell, talk to a few of my customers. Ask Ocyrus about when he comes into the shop, or a few other members here about how they get treated on the phone.
Well, that is different. At the B&M, you can look at all of them right there. On-line, you can't expect a merchant to let you mess with 6 knives, have them for 2 weeks, then ship 5 back. Especially with no guarantee as to how they are actually treated in the mean time. If a customer isn't happy with the knives they get from us, I'll be more than happy to keep sending them knives until they like them - to a point. Just don't expect me to eat shipping after the second knife -
Good customer service is good customer service, whereever you find it. Don't paint with too broad of a brush.
I see both sides of this everyday. We run a small store, with low margins. We have an actual retail showroom in addition to our online store. We don't ship your knives in padded envelopes, nor do we pad our shipping costs to make up for some of the "savings" you are getting on the products on "sale". Work with us and we're happy to work with you. We'll chat with you as long as you want, but please don't call on the 800 number just to shoot the breeze - and if we are just chatting, please allow us to call you back if another customer requires some attention.
It all boils down to this - use some common courtesy. B&M stores have higher prices for a reason than most online dealers, because they have to deal with things most online dealers don't. Being located in a mall brings a lot of foot traffic with high rent, and that convenience winds up costing you as a customer. B&M's have to pay an employee to stand around all day. They need lots more inventory on hand than your typical internet dealer. Etc.
So, if you go into a B&M store, don't abuse their knives by flicking them open as hard as possible. Don't check out every knife they have, then walk out without buying anything. Don't go to fondle their merchandise without giving them a chance to match prices, especially if you are already set on buying it at an online store
Anyone with a modem and a website can operate a busy webstore out of their garage if they have their act together. Customer service, product knowledge / information, ease of contact and returns, 800 numbers & lines to get through to them, package tracking, etc, all add up. If I wanted to, I could cut prices down to the bare minimum, cut out all the amenities, not offer 800 numbers, ship in padded envelopes, through US Mail, have 1 employee (me), not stock inventory, not have pictures and info on my site, and in general, cut every corner out there. The question is, are the customers I'd get worth what I had to do to get them? You can't buy market share that way - those customers will be gone when you realize that it's not worth your time to kill yourself for the extra $1.33 you made by processing 20 extra packages for much less profit.
We try to offer something in the middle. B&M Service, internet prices. This isn't a new concept, but it's hard to do right.
Kevin
Well I dont know about B&M stores cause there isnt one of them in San Antonio that I know of, but the store that I have gone into is NUTS on there prices. This place wanted 101.99 for a gerber mkII, a cold steel shovel for 35.00, and anything else in the store was about 200% above what I could have bought it for through mail-order. I know that stores have a hard time competing with mail order but this place is also a gunstore with a full gunsmithing set-up in the back and I know they do a good buisness. The only thing I ever bought there was a spyderco delica 50/50 that was on sale for I think 40.00 cause it had been a display piece and someone had scuffed the blade and the box was missing. I'm not the richest guy in the world and I've gotta make my cash streach as far as possible so I like to get the best possible for the money. When theres a choice between paying 35bux for a CRKT Companion or 60bux at the knife store I gotta go with what hits my wallet less.
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
Sorry for making people feel guilty. I just believe that if you are going to use someones time you should be giving that person a chance to make the sale to you. If the price you are going to pay at the B&M store is within reason then you should be willing to purchase from them. To use their time and to inventory to become a more educated internet shopper is wrong IMO. If a B&M store is going to charge 150-200% above retail they do not deserve your patronage. They also do not deserve to be used, just ignored.
It is great that 1SKS has the kind of service that they do and though I have only bought one thing from them I can attest to the high degree of quality service that I received.
It is great that 1SKS has the kind of service that they do and though I have only bought one thing from them I can attest to the high degree of quality service that I received.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2001
- Messages
- 118
I own a B&M knife store, and just opened my second one in October.
Both of them are in malls so the rent is high. Plus the advertising costs in newspapers, and radio, (and soon TV) are not cheap. I also pay for a $2M liability insurance policy at each store (not cheap but well worth the price when a customer cuts himself testing a knife). I also have employees to pay, and the related taxes, insurance, accounting, laywers, etc. The cost of cases, displays, electricity, phone, computers, etc. are also not cheap. I am very proud of the fact that I opened both stores with no loans. Hopefully I can pay myself a living wage after this year (my employees make more than I do).
I really can't compete with internet stores. I routinely charge MSRP, but have discounts for mall employees, forum members, sales, good customers, etc.
What I do offer is value for your price with the best service possible!
If the knife isn't as sharp out of the box as you'd like, I'll sharpen it - free. I also give out a lot of free sharpening coupons. I also don't charge alot for sharpening. (I feel it is a service to the customer, not a money maker for me.) I can also reprofile that broken tip back to a nice point - inexpensively.
You can touch and feel and try as many as we have until you find the one that suits you.
I spend a hugh amount of time educating my employees (and the customer). This forum is one of the best resources out there.
Can't quite afford it? We offer layaway. 20% down. No extra fees.
Don't like it after you've bought it? Bring it back, we have a lifetime satisfaction guarantee. We also offer a 30 day in-house defect guarantee (for the first 30 days you can return it to us instead of the manufacturer if there is a warantee problem).
We don't have what you want? We'll order it. You pay no shipping if you pick it up at the store.
We also offer custom knives and swords. (Something no retail store in my area offers).
I give out flyers on area shows, classes, reviews, anything that I think is important to the customer. I have referred this forum so may times to my customers.
If something isn't right about your buying experience, we'll try to fix it to your satisfaction.
No I can't compete with internet stores for price,
but they can't compete with me for service before, during and after the sale.
Pam
Both of them are in malls so the rent is high. Plus the advertising costs in newspapers, and radio, (and soon TV) are not cheap. I also pay for a $2M liability insurance policy at each store (not cheap but well worth the price when a customer cuts himself testing a knife). I also have employees to pay, and the related taxes, insurance, accounting, laywers, etc. The cost of cases, displays, electricity, phone, computers, etc. are also not cheap. I am very proud of the fact that I opened both stores with no loans. Hopefully I can pay myself a living wage after this year (my employees make more than I do).
I really can't compete with internet stores. I routinely charge MSRP, but have discounts for mall employees, forum members, sales, good customers, etc.
What I do offer is value for your price with the best service possible!
If the knife isn't as sharp out of the box as you'd like, I'll sharpen it - free. I also give out a lot of free sharpening coupons. I also don't charge alot for sharpening. (I feel it is a service to the customer, not a money maker for me.) I can also reprofile that broken tip back to a nice point - inexpensively.
You can touch and feel and try as many as we have until you find the one that suits you.
I spend a hugh amount of time educating my employees (and the customer). This forum is one of the best resources out there.
Can't quite afford it? We offer layaway. 20% down. No extra fees.
Don't like it after you've bought it? Bring it back, we have a lifetime satisfaction guarantee. We also offer a 30 day in-house defect guarantee (for the first 30 days you can return it to us instead of the manufacturer if there is a warantee problem).
We don't have what you want? We'll order it. You pay no shipping if you pick it up at the store.
We also offer custom knives and swords. (Something no retail store in my area offers).
I give out flyers on area shows, classes, reviews, anything that I think is important to the customer. I have referred this forum so may times to my customers.
If something isn't right about your buying experience, we'll try to fix it to your satisfaction.
No I can't compete with internet stores for price,
but they can't compete with me for service before, during and after the sale.
Pam
Daniel Dorn
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 1999
- Messages
- 5,318
No problem KWM. You must have been posting as I was writing mine. I realize that you were refering to the ones who go in and lie about their intentions. I never say I'm here for such and such, and then not buy a thing. I've been often enough that they know I'm not going to purchase a knife, but I let them know that I appreciate their time, and never take time from them when another customer walks in. I even encourage the other customers by telling them a little about the knives, and their quality.
Alchemy Knife sounds like a great store! I wish the ones in town were more like that.
Good Thread! I seldom go back to one I've visited before to see what else people have added.
DD
Alchemy Knife sounds like a great store! I wish the ones in town were more like that.
Good Thread! I seldom go back to one I've visited before to see what else people have added.
DD
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
Pam, those are all the reasons that I like to deal with great B&M stores. I would love to have a store like the 2 you have in my neck of the woods. It is a 200 mile trip for me to get to a top notch knife store.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2000
- Messages
- 3,140
Having worked in the retail chain for nearly 20 years (currently as a manufacturer's representative) I'd like to make a few comments:
Without Brick and Mortar retailers, most brand names would never get established, even in this day of e commerce (US commerce department just announced that B&M retailers w/ etail divisions are more successful than standalone etailers). People really want to handle stuff before they buy it most times. This is not so much true with comodity items such as copier toner cartridges or dog food, but is definitly true for subjective merchandise (sport coats, perfumes, pocket knives, loudspeakers, etc.). Many of us are also instant gratification nuts (that's me). Once I decide I want something, I want it as soon as possible. To satisfy that consumer urge requires an investment by the dealer in inventory (not free, imagine that) for both etailers and B&M retailers. If they have the inventory, B&M retailers have a real advantage in being able to satisfy that instant gratification urge.
In my industry (Audio Video, Home theater, Hifi) many retailers and manufacturer's have done studies over the years and found that a B&M retailer needs to maintain about a 40% profit margin on everything they sell to keep the doors open, the IRS paid and the employees coming to work. It's a cold hard accounting fact.
I am not opposed to shopping on the net for commodity items like the Sony Memorystick i just bought for my PDA, but if you want to be able to walk into stores in the future and "check out the goods" you need to be willing to support that (quality) retailer and let them make a reasonable living (is it only OK for your daughter to go to college and you to have a retirement fund, but not for him and his family to have these things?). Are you willing to sacrafice the entire demo (you fondle the stuff) and personal interaction part of the equation to get a slightly better price? I'm not catagorically slamming the the etailers as a group, and i know there are bad retailers, but please realize why good retailers have to charge more and what they bring to the table.
For specialty products to continue in an age of comodity rtailers (Best Buy & Costco) specialty retailers need to continue to exist as well. Patronize your local shop and expect better customer service and a personal realtionship, but don't expect them to deliver those extras as the same price as an etailer can offer as it's an apples and oranges transaction even if it's an apples vs apples product comparison.
Just MHO
jmx
Without Brick and Mortar retailers, most brand names would never get established, even in this day of e commerce (US commerce department just announced that B&M retailers w/ etail divisions are more successful than standalone etailers). People really want to handle stuff before they buy it most times. This is not so much true with comodity items such as copier toner cartridges or dog food, but is definitly true for subjective merchandise (sport coats, perfumes, pocket knives, loudspeakers, etc.). Many of us are also instant gratification nuts (that's me). Once I decide I want something, I want it as soon as possible. To satisfy that consumer urge requires an investment by the dealer in inventory (not free, imagine that) for both etailers and B&M retailers. If they have the inventory, B&M retailers have a real advantage in being able to satisfy that instant gratification urge.
In my industry (Audio Video, Home theater, Hifi) many retailers and manufacturer's have done studies over the years and found that a B&M retailer needs to maintain about a 40% profit margin on everything they sell to keep the doors open, the IRS paid and the employees coming to work. It's a cold hard accounting fact.
I am not opposed to shopping on the net for commodity items like the Sony Memorystick i just bought for my PDA, but if you want to be able to walk into stores in the future and "check out the goods" you need to be willing to support that (quality) retailer and let them make a reasonable living (is it only OK for your daughter to go to college and you to have a retirement fund, but not for him and his family to have these things?). Are you willing to sacrafice the entire demo (you fondle the stuff) and personal interaction part of the equation to get a slightly better price? I'm not catagorically slamming the the etailers as a group, and i know there are bad retailers, but please realize why good retailers have to charge more and what they bring to the table.
For specialty products to continue in an age of comodity rtailers (Best Buy & Costco) specialty retailers need to continue to exist as well. Patronize your local shop and expect better customer service and a personal realtionship, but don't expect them to deliver those extras as the same price as an etailer can offer as it's an apples and oranges transaction even if it's an apples vs apples product comparison.
Just MHO
jmx
So, I try to support the good ones and feel NO guilt about the bad ones.
If a B&M has knowledgeable employees and good customer service I will pay MSRP or even 10% over MSRP even though I can get most things at 20% to 30% below MSRP off the Net. I will do this both to support a B&M and for the Instant Gratification of having The Knife that I have inspected for Fit and Function.
On the other hand if a B&M (Like the Chain I believe Quiet Priest is referring to on the East Coast) charges significantly more than MSRP and has NO Requirement for ANY Knife Knowledge for employees I feel No need to support them in any way.
Manufacturers typically base their MSRP on the needs of their B&M Dealers. That is why Internet and Mail Order Operations are able to charge less than MSRP.
If a B&M has knowledgeable employees and good customer service I will pay MSRP or even 10% over MSRP even though I can get most things at 20% to 30% below MSRP off the Net. I will do this both to support a B&M and for the Instant Gratification of having The Knife that I have inspected for Fit and Function.
On the other hand if a B&M (Like the Chain I believe Quiet Priest is referring to on the East Coast) charges significantly more than MSRP and has NO Requirement for ANY Knife Knowledge for employees I feel No need to support them in any way.
Manufacturers typically base their MSRP on the needs of their B&M Dealers. That is why Internet and Mail Order Operations are able to charge less than MSRP.
Although I don't have a B&M store near where I live, I have come across a couple in my travels. When I'm travelling, if I see a knife store I'll always stop and look, but most of the time I'm not contemplating a purchase. One way to look at it is that with good B&M stores you are paying the same price for the knife but you are buying customer service.
GronK
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2001
- Messages
- 19,303
jmx. Got into audio retailing in the late 70's, when specialty hi-fi shops were going strong. I watched as the catalogue show rooms put them out of business (no e-commerce back then). Folks would come in and pick my brain, then come in a week later to brag on the deal they got at La Belle's. They were paying less for a given product there than I had to pay wholesale. Oh well. At end of day most of us are actually price shoppers. As much as I would like to support my local B&M knife shop I've only bought about 10% of my recent blades there (3 out of 30).