Backhoning technique

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maximus83

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Nov 7, 2011
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Can anyone recommend videos by known folks here in the forum or elsewhere that demonstrate good backhoning technique?

Yes I searched YT, you'd not believe the stuff that comes up under "backhone", I feel traumatized. :-) Then I tried "sharpening backhone" and it got a little better, but still a needle in a haystack.
 
Edge-trailing sharpening strokes on a stone. Maybe that's the issue right there, I'm searching for a word "invented" by the knife community but not widely used.
 
The context I've seen it in is actually sharpening at a high angle to remove a burr followed by sharpening again at a lower desired angle to bring the shoulder right back down to the edge without forming a burr.
 
Who knows - but I understand it as edge trailing movement on a stone as well. Just like stropping on a stone. I would not use that term to replace "classic" stropping on "stropping" material (like leather etc)
 
Best guess based on discussions here in BF: Backhone means to make light edge-trailing strokes on an abrasive in order to refine a sharp ("apexed") edge by removing a burr, smoothing, and aligning it.

An option for technique: I found a video of Murray Carter doing this here, starts at about 2:05. To add to my confusion, he calls this "stropping" :) but it seems like the same thing we're calling backhoning. Anyway, the interesting thing is he starts with the tip of the blade positioned at the same sharpening angle. Then he brings the handle down gradually as he does the edge-trailing stroke.
 
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The technique that HeavyHand and I are doing and calling it backhoning is: the Same as stropping, it's merely done on a hard stone. Thus, we use a different word to differentiate the technique from stropping. Which is normally (stropping)done on a soft surface. So, westib had it. Yes, it is a made up word. DM
 
We must be doing something different, there's nothing in the top dozens of results I get on backhone or back hone that has anything to do with sharpening. Anyway, given we're just calling it stropping on a stone with no distinction, the Q is answered. Because that means the technique is roughly the same too, except with the difference that on a hard medium, it might change what angle you hold at versus traditional stropping on stuff that gives.
 
I watched one video that showed that the best way to strop was either matching the edge angle with very light pressure. Too much pressure would cause the trailing edge to push down into the stropping medium. This makes the medium go around the edge dulling it.

The other correct way was shallower angle than edge with a little pressure. Again the pressure causes the edge to dip down and drag on the medium this time because the shallower angle it doesn't round the edge off.

I imagine for stropping on a hard medium you will have to match the angle and use light pressure. Tip leading strokes or heel leading strokes shouldn't matter.
 
Groundhogsniper said:
I typed in back hone on YouTube and came up with mostly all sharpening techniques.
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Yep, I googled backhoning and got a lot of information & discussion from Badger and Blade. Seems it's a old, well used technique used in straight razor honing. Those guys knew the term. DM
 
^Thanks, that's good. One slight bummer in those older threads is I cannot access the photos any longer. The discussion in this thread, and the Murray Carter video I linked to above, clarified things a lot. Murray just sees it all as "stropping" even when doing it on a stone, and while I get why some folks prefer to differentiate between "stone stropping" versus traditional stropping on a softer medium like leather and use different terms for those, in the end, it seems simpler to just think of it all as stropping. Because all those approaches have roughly the same GOALS. What they all have in common is: edge-trailing strokes with the goals of removing burrs, and aligning, polishing, and refining an apexed edge. You're trying to accomplish these same goals whether you backhone-on-a-stone, strop-on-a-mug, or strop-on-leather-with-compound. What differs is the material you use, the techniques based on the materials, and the DEGREE of results you can get in each of the stropping goals. Simple example: 'stropping' on a piece of plain hardwood, or a piece of hardwood with compound (both of which I've tested recently). I'm trying to achieve the same goals but using the compound adds a greater degree of honing and polishing than just using plain hardwood. If I 'strop' on a damp high-grit stone like my Ptarmigan, I can accomplish all these goals too, but the degree of impact on each of the stropping goals will be slightly different, plus the stone will likely remove a bit more metal.

Finally, on the technique for the actual edge-trailing strokes: I agree with Lapedog Lapedog after seeing a few videos including Carter. It doesn't seem to matter whether you start at tip or heel, the main thing is keeping the right angle based on the stropping material you are using. After trying different ways of doing edge-trailing strokes on stones and hardwood, it seemed that starting with the tip as Carter does was a bit easier. Why? Because the tip and belly areas can be tricky anyway, it helped to pay close attention to those and position at just the right angle for the tip at the start of the stroke, then it's relatively easy to eyeball it and go by feel to hold the angle on the main part of the edge for the remainder of the stroke. Purely a preference thing.
 
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It is worth considering that crossing your scratch pattern during your finishing step can produce a finer polish, but the effect is a small one--though noticeable. It's what allows folks to get such keen edges off of only a coarse stone.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It is worth considering that crossing your scratch pattern during your finishing step can produce a finer polish, but the effect is a small one--though noticeable. It's what allows folks to get such keen edges off of only a coarse stone.
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Can you add some detail on that? For instance, do you mean something like: AF > Ptarmigan, or 300-grit diamond stone > Ptarmigan without using an intermediate F or EF stone.

In effect, are you saying go straight from a medium coarse stone to stropping?
 
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"Backhone".....I must say that is not a common phrase, for me anyway. I'll throw in my thoughts, and they're just thoughts/opinions. I don't have any evidence to back this up.

I have always been under the impression that when a knife is "honed", that means edge LEADING. ONLY edge leading. That the word "strop" means edge TRAILING. ONLY edge trailing. (The word "hone" simply means to come into alignment, and we know that this alignment "apex" can be done edge leading OR trailing). So when I hear the word or phrase "backhone", what comes to my mind immediately is exactly what FortyTwoBlades said. You have an edge apex that is already established, and the goal is to remove steel right behind the apex. It would be, in essence, "thinning" the edge bevel and shoulder area. But again, that is my understanding, based really on opinion, and nothing set in whetstone!
 
maximus83 said:
Can you add some detail on that? For instance, do you mean something like: AF > Ptarmigan, or 300-grit diamond stone > Ptarmigan without using an intermediate F or EF stone.

In effect, are you saying go straight from a medium coarse stone to stropping?
Click to expand...

You know how saws come in blades that cut on the push, on the pull, or on both? The slant of your scratches produces a similar effect on knives. Try putting a very coarse edge on a knife, and then observe how aggressive vs. smooth the cut feels moving in one direction vs. the other. If you then take a bevel that's been set with the scratches one way and do some strokes on that same stone running along the opposing slant, that's crossing your scratch pattern.

 
samuraistuart said:
"Backhone".....I must say that is not a common phrase, for me anyway. I'll throw in my thoughts, and they're just thoughts/opinions. I don't have any evidence to back this up.

I have always been under the impression that when a knife is "honed", that means edge LEADING. ONLY edge leading. That the word "strop" means edge TRAILING. ONLY edge trailing. (The word "hone" simply means to come into alignment, and we know that this alignment "apex" can be done edge leading OR trailing). So when I hear the word or phrase "backhone", what comes to my mind immediately is exactly what FortyTwoBlades said. You have an edge apex that is already established, and the goal is to remove steel right behind the apex. It would be, in essence, "thinning" the edge bevel and shoulder area. But again, that is my understanding, based really on opinion, and nothing set in whetstone!
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you on the ambiguity of terms. Part of the point of this thread for me was to clear that up, not just as an academic discussion about defining things, but to be clear on what I'm actually doing at the point after apexing when people say you should "backhone" or "strop." In general, I think your understanding aligns with what I have above and how Carter uses it, which is that "strop" always means an edge-trailing stroke. "Backhoning" to me could simply be included in the stropping phase, but it depends how you strop and what materials you use. For example if you strop on a stone with light edge-trailing strokes, or if you strop on a hard surface with compound and use the proper angle, you would be backhoning as you strop. I think. If not, somebody will set me straight here. :)
 
Well, my English is not so good but technically I read and understood that:

Grind or regrind means remove a lot material above the edge like change the full flat grind blade to a hollow grind or not necessarily change the blade geometry, sometimes just thinning all the blade area above the bevel.

Sharpening means work on a back bevel and/or bevel (aka primary and secondary edge (aka primary and secondary bevel on this order)) first is what is above and second is what is below. The secondary edge will form the apex and the primary edge is what is inbetween the secondary edge and the what is above.

Hone means work on the apex like touch ups or even if the blade has just 1 bevel and the apex is a part of it.
I don’t know the mathematical limit that split sharpening from hone so I assume that when I look to a blade and think: wow, this one needs a lot work I’ll sharpen it. Or if a blade thick (measure of shoulder to shouder with a caliper or micrometer) is over 1mm I’ll sharpen it once I form the apex than I’ll be honing.

Back hone for me sounds like sharpening literally translate from English to Portuguese and would be hone the back or could be hone on back motion?

Trailing stroke mean strop movement like drag the knife back if it’s on a stone or if it’s on a jig you drag the stone on the spine>edge direction.

Leading stroke means opposite of trailing stroke. Edge>spine movement.

M’I right in my definitions?

Edit: one motion that I could not understand in sharpening is sweep motion.
 
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