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Backup Weapon - Endura Wave vs Matriarch 2 Wave

Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by Jibbles, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. RevDevil

    RevDevil Super Evil Supermod Staff Member Super Mod

    Nov 9, 2009
    I beg to differ. Have you read about what the initial design purpose for the Matriarch series is? Most people don't use a knife that is meant for SD as a utility knife. They tend to want to keep their knife as sharp as possible for when it is needed. A fully serrated knife will tear right through just about any sort of clothing, including denim, nylon, polyester, flesh, and won't stop until hitting the bone. I think ya need to read a bit more before making some statements. You need to define "lethal in a more realistic scenario. ;)
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  2. jimh0220


    Apr 15, 2008
    So well put. Finally someone who gets it regarding serrated knives' effectiveness on 'eating a little meat'. Why are steak knives serrated folks? 'Cuz they cut meat fast and easy...
  3. philllll

    philllll Gold Member Gold Member

    May 23, 2013
    I want a Spyderco Steak Knife set in S30V already!!!
  4. RevDevil

    RevDevil Super Evil Supermod Staff Member Super Mod

    Nov 9, 2009
    Preach! ;)
    I would so buy like 8-10 of those. Make them with stabilized wine wood handles, or some nice redwood burl. :thumbup:
  5. weech3


    Jan 12, 2013
    The OP stated that a fixed blade tdi was an option. And I'll be damned if I ever apologize for recommending further training.
  6. UpDok


    Mar 4, 2006
    To the OP: Thanks for the photograph. I never noticed the Matriarch 2 Wave before. It certainly looks like its built for a purpose.

    I may need to get one.
  7. ridethepony14


    May 26, 2013
    I've got the endura wave and its awesome. Deployment is super easy and the dagger-like blade shape and frn grips make it a serious defensive tool. Also check out the P'kal by spyderco, it's another waved defensive purpose knife.
  8. Krav

    Krav Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Jun 6, 2013
    A fix blade will always be your best defensive weapon, preferable something you can put a finger threw, so it stays in your hand. Next I would say Karambit, with the wave.
  9. wasatchdan


    Jan 6, 2007
    I have a quick war story to tell about the Matriarch and its usefulness as a self defense blade.

    About ten years ago, I bought my little sister a first gen Matriarch as a self defense knife. She was sixteen at the time, and I wanted her to have a decent knife she could use to protect herself from the hordes of predators that my big-brother sensibilities imagined were lurking around every corner. My sister is very pretty and even at that age, the guys were coming out of the woodworks. So I wanted her to be safe.

    I made a wooden trainer for her to use, and for a month, she and I would practice Jim Keating's Civilian/hawkbill fighting techniques, which were very good and easy for her to remember. She got wicked fast at deploying her Matriarch, and I felt better knowing she had the means to protect herself.

    Fast forward ten years. My sister is divorced now and took up with a new boyfriend. He's kind of a useless little tard, which is her type, so what can I say? New boyfriend is a student at the University and lives in a house with a half dozen other people. Now, despite my dislike of her new boyfriend, his one redeeming feature is that when she stays over with him and he leaves in the morning for his classes, he never fails to leave her Matriarch next to her pillow while she's sleeping. This is important.

    So about six months ago, my sister is asleep over at the BFs house, when one of BFs new roommmates, some douche who'd been in the house for only three or four days, opened the bedroom door and woke her up, wanting to go to breakfast. This is a middle age guy--drunken, unemployed; a practically homeless wreck who was only able to live there because of the charity of the landlord. My sister told him to go away and to shut the door so she could sleep. He kept bugging her about it, though, so she finally gave in and told him she'd get up in half an hour and go with him. That seemed to satisfy him and he went away.

    A few minutes later, she woke up to the roommate groping her in her sleep. So my sister did what any woman does when she wakes up to someone molesting her. She yelled WTF!!! and tells him to get the hell out. He stood up and started taking off his clothes, telling her how "this is going to happen" and "he needs this." My sister rolled to the other side of the bed next to the wall and starts looking for her phone, screaming at him to get out. He didn't. Asshole.

    She got her hand on the phone and started to dial, but he lunged across the bed and grabbed her arm. She wrestled with him while simultaneously hunting around for her knife, somehow getting hold of it and she flicked the blade open. She screamed at him that if he didn't get the F**K OUT she was going to cut him.

    He didn't believe her. He said, "You ain't gonna do s**t" and started trying to pull her across the bed.

    So that was when my sister used those old Comtech techniques I'd taught her all those years ago. All that practice paid off, since some of it was still in her muscle memory, thank God. She pulled her hand back and into her chest, stretching his arm out. Then she pressed the Matriarch into the inside crook of his elbow and prrrreeessssed down. That nasty, curving talon of a blade dug into his arm and left him with no other place to go as she drove him right down into the bed, helpless. From there, she was able to negotiate from a position of power as he tried desperately to not move at all. Every time he made any kind of movement, the Matriarch's blade just dug in more. That blade is a damned bear trap--once your in, you ain't getting out. And she kept the pressure on while she dialed for her help.

    It turns out, the only damage he had was a neat little row of puncture wounds from the teeth and a line of lightly cut skin, but nothing more. Just pressing the serrations into his arm did the job. Pain compliance at its best, and mind you, this guy was mildly drunk at the time and he still got the message.

    So suffice to say, my sister is an even bigger fan of the Matriarch than she was before. We've actually begun to practice again, just in case.

    The day of her ordeal, she sent me a cryptic text that said she need a stabbier knife. It turns out that while she will never be without her Matriarch, she also wanted a fixed blade that would be easier and faster to deploy in a f*cked up tangle. So I got her a Ka-bar TDI, which can still utilize the same Comtech techniques she knows, only it can handle thrusts and stabs easier and is very instinctive to use. Now she carries her TDI crossdraw and her Matriarch in its customary spot, clipped to the top of her boot, with a can of Saber Red on her keys and a Foster Brothers sap along for the ride.

    While I've carried nearly thirty different Spydercos over the years, with waved Enduras being EDC'd at the moment, I have to say that my sister's Matriarch is the best $60 I've ever spent. It kept my sister safe, and worked exactly as intended. Jim Keating's old Comtech methods worked just dandy. No one got hurt (mostly), no one went to the hospital, and she is safe. Pretty good job for a knife that I've read some ignorant people mocking in other threads as a useless blade.

    Thanks, Spyderco, you saved my baby sister. :thumbup:
  10. Maniacal Pete

    Maniacal Pete

    Oct 16, 2010
    ^^cool post.^^
  11. Jibbles


    Mar 6, 2013
    Your sister shoulda had a gun, but good story :)
  12. Jibbles


    Mar 6, 2013
    Ended up buying the Matriarch II Wave. Will probably carry it when I'm in the office since firearms aren't allowed. Will probably get the Endura or a Yojimbo II down the line. Thanks for all the help guys!
  13. spinynorman


    Nov 9, 2005
    Good choice. Consider the problem of sidearm retention. In that capacity the Matriarch is preferred to the Endura.

    The Matriarch is also preferred in situations that you are, honestly, more likely to encounter: extrication of yourself or someone else from a vehicle; removal of clothing for first aid; or cutting cordage. As a second, weak-side knife the Matriarch is the way to go for sure.
  14. chambelona59


    May 4, 2012
    While doing some research, I just came across this thread, yes I know it's from four months ago (July).
    After reading the original post, the Op very "clearly stated his needs and desired usage" for what he was looking for.
    To me, it's definitely not the plain edge Endura Wave.
    I personally own both a Civilian and a Matriarch 2 Wave.

    I believe in specific scenarios the end goal is not always to "kill" a potential aggressor/attacker, especially if you need to quickly (and painfully),
    get the aggressors hand off your firearm (or need to cut a seat belt), which is where the Matriarch 2 Wave excels.

    Someone in this thread mentioned the esteemed master 'James Keating'.
    Here are two videos that clearly show that though these highly stylized blade designs can be lethal... lethality is definitely not the end goal (especially the second video).
    The first video he uses the 'Civilian' however the techniques can most assuredly be applied to the Matriarch 2 Wave.

    James Keating: "Techniques and use for defense.


    James Keating: "Respect for life"

  15. Screwdriver


    Feb 27, 2010
    I'd get the Matriarch Wave and use it in a reverse hold. You would punch and slash in the same movement. Stabbing is not precise....You want them to feel intense pain and bleed. Face, hands, arms, legs, neck etc.
  16. gunfixrjoe


    Aug 11, 2011
    one of each
  17. OnionPoptarts


    Aug 18, 2013

    endura, more practical for EDC, more natural design and allows for more than just slashing moves. Serrations may cut through any clothing, but you stab them and your cut through also. Stabs are harder to block than slashes and on that logic alone id go with the endure.
  18. CapitalizedLiving


    Dec 1, 2007
    If you can legally do so I'd recommend a fixed blade. Spyderco needs to bring back the Ronin, but in the meantime the Swick 3 (hooked blade) and very-soon-to-be-released Swick 4 (leaf blade) are excellent options and would not be terrible selections in lieu of a Matriarch or Endura, respectively. They are intuitive to draw and use, low profile due to the pistol-grip handle (which curves along your waist or out to the side, leaving very little if any printing and full flexibility of motion), and difficult to disarm. They are smallish, but you'll get a good bite with it. And you're looking at less than $100 for one, including sheath and IWB loop, which I think you're going to want.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  19. FCM415

    FCM415 Banned BANNED

    Jul 9, 2012
    I'm not versed in any knife tactics and so if I was to use a knife in self defense, it would be purely defensive so to speak. With that, slashing is what I'll mostly be doing. For the untrained, both are better than holding a carrot but I'll take the Matriarch. It's a vicious claw for get the f*** off me scenario. I'd hate to block slashes from those myself, with what my arms? No thanks. Perhaps at very close ranges stabbing for me as an untrained guy would be the ticket but if I'm that close, the Matriarch I reckon can do some vicious things with the neck.

    I just (temporarily) moved to Stockton CA for my wife's school. Look the town up, it seems worse than Detroit/Oakland in the area I'm in and I lived in both. I do carry bigger blades but I never considered self defense as the #1 reason to carry knives but I am thinking about a Matriarch w/ Emerson if my CCW carry license gets denied. For now I got pepper spray and larger Spydies when I'm outside. I'm well covered at home though :thumbup:

    *It's illegal in CA to conceal a fixed blade. How stupid huh. No blade limits on folders though in 99% of the state.
  20. chambelona59


    May 4, 2012
    "Endura Wave vs Matriarch 2 Wave" specifically for the stated application/s in the original post.
    If you read the original operators post, he clearly states "I already carry a daily utility blade" so obviously he has no need for a "more practical for EDC" straight edge Endura Wave.

    The operator clearly stated he wanted a "a purely self-defense oriented blade" for application during a "specific scenario".
    And then states "this would be as a backup or to cut someone off my weapon".
    The extremely sharp serrated 'S curve' of the Matriarch 2 Wave once raked across a potential aggressors wrist/hand/arm will
    result in the blade "digging deeply into" flesh/tendons/muscle, without doubt causing the aggressor to lose his grip on the operators/officers firearm.

    The specifically designed curved tip of "S" curved blades (Civilian, Matriarch 1 and 2 Waved) are perfectly designed for "hooking/controlling", which the plain edge Endura Wave will not do.

    The op wound up purchasing the Matriarch 2 Wave, an excellent choice for his specified potential application.

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