Bad at freehand sharpening. Please recommend something that will hold the blade steady.

I’ll admit I have skipped over all the replies but I can’t freehand sharpen myself. I finally bought myself a KME and while I haven’t used it much I think it is a great system for those with trouble free handing. You can buy the basic model for around $200 or less I believe. The deluxe model is great if you want to be able to do more with your sharpening but will run over $300 iirc.
 
Bongobill said:
Can someone recommend a sharpener that will hold the blade at a constant angle while i sharpen it?
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Personally, I have found the "hold exactly the same angle" instructions for freehand sharpening do not apply to the real world. I am not at all advocating sloppy sharpening, but it's impossible to hold the same precise angle repeatedly, and people have been sharpening knives for many thousands of years without guides. I also think freehand sharpening is a good skill to have. Guides may not always be available, such as in an emergency or survival situation where you will probably need a sharp knife.

Do I think my knife edges are as good as I could get with a guided system? I very much doubt it. But I can shave with them and they do what I need them to do without a lot of time, hassle, bulky equipment, and additional expense. I don't need any better than that. Plus, I usually carry everything when I go into the wilderness and there's no way I'm going to pack in a sharpening device of any kind.

Like many new freehand sharpeners, I floundered around in confusion and frustration for quite awhile, thinking I'd never "get it", but now I am still a bit surprised how simple and easy sharpening really is. The following book helped me immensely to understand the basic principles of freehand sharpening and reprofiling, and how to do it. It also advocates using a guided system, if you want to go that route (there is no rule that says you can't do both). The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch.
 
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M MtnHawk1 I think for general use people like OP and myself who suffer from hand tremors making holding a steady anything impossible guided systems are great investments. If I were lost in nature and had a dull knife I would be free handing that thing on the nearest stone until I got it sharp. If I were packing for an outing I might also back a small travel sharpener that takes up about as much space as a couple of ink pens.
 
PirateSeulb, I didn't pick up from the OP that they had hand tremors, but of course that has to be taken into consideration and I'm glad people with them have an alternative to freehand sharpening. Obviously with the number of companies making sharpening guides, and the numbers sold, they are very popular. In fact, the book I suggested says that for the best edges guides are superior to freehand sharpening. I've used a guided system and have nothing against them, just prefer to freehand sharpen for a few reasons.

The most important thing is that we keep our edged tools sharp, not how we do it!
 
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I have the wicked edge with a bunch of stones, an edge pro clone with a set of chosera stones, sharp maker, 1X42 belt grinder, and an assortment of strops an compounds. After years of watching free hand sharpening videos on youtube, a few months ago a dove in and bought 400/800/3000 chosera stones which sat around for awhile but i eventually tried my hand on an 8" fibrox chef knife. My technique wasn't the best as I was trying to switch sides from one side to another and keeping it consistent was challenging.
Over the weekend I tried to sharpen my bark river 10" super chef in M390 on the edge pro clone and chosera stones and it took forever. It also reminded me how much of a pain it was to hold a long blade flat throughout the sharpening. It was sharp but I wasn't totally happy with it. I pulled it out today and looked at the edge and there was a 3" section starting at the heel on the left side where the grind fell just short of the edge. I decided to break out the water stones to address it and this time kept the knife in my right hand the entire time. Within a minute I was able to correct the issue and finished the knife through all three stones plus a spyderco ultra fine bench stone followed by stropping. Total time was less than 10 minutes at most. The stones cut really fast and raised a burr with very few passes on each stone.
So what does this all mean for you? I think the wicked edge is good but the set up and progression takes a long time and shallow angles are challenging with the standard kit. While WE has a lot of stones, they are limited compared to bench stones and are expensive given the amount of abrasive you actually get. The benefit is the clamp system which allows for maximum consistency.
The edge pro in terms of time is about the same as the wicked edge but missing the clamping feature which on a longer knife can be an issue. The benefit is it can handle shallower angles than the WE but again in terms of stones is relatively the same situation.
I have seen the TSProf and that unit is a hybrid of the WE and Edge pro in that it is very similar to the edge pro with a rotating clamp feature that seems to be the best of both worlds. It also has an analog angle guide so set up should be quicker. Stone selection is similar to the Edge Pro.
The last option is free hand. This has the most options in terms of stones, no tools required, set up takes no time and the edge depends on your level of practice and how steady you can lock your wrist. From a time perspective I think stones can be faster and once you have the muscle memory down you can sharpen on almost anything (I've seen people using coffee cups, paving stones, etc).
If you have a tremor or your concerned about keeping steady I would give one of the clamping systems a try and would take a look at the TS Prof for ease of set up and consistency of the clamping system. You can buy aluminum blanks and make your own stones as well. I have been looking at this system and have been on the fence since I already have the other two but if I didn't I would purchase the TS Prof without hesitation.
 
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I have the wicked edge with a bunch of stones, an edge pro clone with a set of chosera stones, sharp maker, 1X42 belt grinder, and an assortment of strops an compounds. After years of watching free hand sharpening videos on youtube, a few months ago a dove in and bought 400/800/3000 chosera stones which sat around for awhile but i eventually tried my hand on an 8" fibrox chef knife. My technique wasn't the best as I was trying to switch sides from one side to another and keeping it consistent was challenging.
Over the weekend I tried to sharpen my bark river 10" super chef in M390 on the edge pro clone and chosera stones and it took forever. It also reminded me how much of a pain it was to hold a long blade flat throughout the sharpening. It was sharp but I wasn't totally happy with it. I pulled it out today and looked at the edge and there was a 3" section starting at the heel on the left side where the grind fell just short of the edge. I decided to break out the water stones to address it and this time kept the knife in my right hand the entire time. Within a minute I was able to correct the issue and finished the knife through all three stones plus a spyderco ultra fine bench stone followed by stropping. Total time was less than 10 minutes at most. The stones cut really fast and raised a burr with very few passes on each stone.
So what does this all mean for you? I think the wicked edge is good but the set up and progression takes a long time and shallow angles are challenging with the standard kit. While WE has a lot of stones, they are limited compared to bench stones and are expensive given the amount of abrasive you actually get. The benefit is the clamp system which allows for maximum consistency.
The edge pro in terms of time is about the same as the wicked edge but missing the clamping feature which on a longer knife can be an issue. The benefit is it can handle shallower angles than the WE but again in terms of stones is relatively the same situation.
I have seen the TSProf and that unit is a hybrid of the WE and Edge pro in that it is very similar to the edge pro with a rotating clamp feature that seems to be the best of both worlds. It also has an analog angle guide so set up should be quicker. Stone selection is similar to the Edge Pro.
The last option is free hand. This has the most options in terms of stones, no tools required, set up takes no time and the edge depends on your level of practice and how steady you can lock your wrist. From a time perspective I think stones can be faster and once you have the muscle memory down you can sharpen on almost anything (I've seen people using coffee cups, paving stones, etc).
If you have a tremor or your concerned about keeping steady I would give one of the clamping systems a try and would take a look at the TS Prof for ease of set up and consistency of the clamping system. You can buy aluminum blanks and make your own stones as well. I have been looking at this system and have been on the fence since I already have the other two but if I didn't I would purchase the TS Prof without hesitation.
 
I'm.just touching on the ultra precision thing mentioned about the guided systems. For me if a knife shaves arm hair effortlessly that's as good as I will ever need. And I will also add my kitchen knives get a few licks with a DMT 325 and done. I do take one chef knife up to 1200 for chopping(push cutting). So to me it's just a head game. Some people like them. Lol. But if your looking to take care of your knives you can "get by" with a less than atomic edge. Now I can always get into the shed and bang out a super keen edge in a minute with my paper wheel.
 
You might want to consider the TSProf Blitz that will come to the US next month. It should cost less than the TSProf K03 kit. Here is a picture of it. Visit www.statesllc.com to check on availability to order. We currently have the Master Kit in stock.

George
Blitz_2000x.jpg
 
Hey George, do you have a price for the Blitz yet?
 
Sharp Steel said:
That is a shame. I had bookmarked the page for getting one of those in the future.
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If you leave an email on the site I'll put your name on a notification list.
The price for making them the same was pricing them into the boutique class when the concept was supposed to go the other way - cheap and effective.

As far as OP getting better at freehand, a great deal comes down to learning how to interpret the feel on the stone. Coarse stone sharpening is invaluable for this. Next, one needs to see where your grip on the tool is not stable - mechanically you need to be able to accurately make use of what your hands are feeling.

Stone selection can make a huge difference, as well as a ton of time on the coarse stones. Realistically you can go from a 120 grit stone directly to a smooth steel, hard strop or microbevel on a finishing stone. Only on woodworking tools is a true progression a necessity for best results, and even then only on finishing work.
 
HeavyHanded HeavyHanded Have you explored 3D printing? There seem to be a growing community of both commercial and end-user operators. 3D printed parts inherently have ridges on them, and I bet if you worked with an expert this could be incorporated into the functional design. If it is not economical for production perhaps you could still sell plans for the ribbed platen along with the wood parts and compound to complete the kit?

visual2.jpg
 
Mr.Wizard said:
HeavyHanded HeavyHanded Have you explored 3D printing? There seem to be a growing community of both commercial and end-user operators. 3D printed parts inherently have ridges on them, and I bet if you worked with an expert this could be incorporated into the functional design. If it is not economical for production perhaps you could still sell plans for the ribbed platen along with the wood parts and compound to complete the kit?

visual2.jpg
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I was looking into having them cast using metallized resin such as is used for short run stamping dies. Since the material needs to be seriously hard to resist deformation, most plastics and softer metals won't work.

Spent some time working with a local mold shop but their hardest material only held up to about 39 minutes of work. Acrylic, glass, steel, presumably some of the harder resins out there. I'd like the price for the basic block to be under $25.
 
HeavyHanded HeavyHanded I thought ABS (a common filament type) would be hard enough, but I guess not.

Maybe look into methods of knurling and see if any could be applied here?

How is the pattern applied to inexpensive hand files?
 
HeavyHanded said:
I was looking into having them cast using metallized resin such as is used for short run stamping dies. Since the material needs to be seriously hard to resist deformation, most plastics and softer metals won't work.

Spent some time working with a local mold shop but their hardest material only held up to about 39 minutes of work. Acrylic, glass, steel, presumably some of the harder resins out there. I'd like the price for the basic block to be under $25.
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Hi,
What about ceramic/tiles?
This one was $1 or $2
imgur.com/a/YK8wZ61
45YJK98.jpg

hvEwfFU.jpg
 
bucketstove said:
Hi,
What about ceramic/tiles?
This one was $1 or $2
imgur.com/a/YK8wZ61
45YJK98.jpg

hvEwfFU.jpg
Click to expand...


The detail is too fine for ceramics. I spoke to a glass blower about having them slumped into a mold and that might have some promise, they were not very hopeful about being able to mold a negative and have it retain anywhere near enough detail though. Durability also a major concern.

I figured out several ways to make it out of steel plates and of course could be machined out of aluminum or the cast acrylic I was using, but price rapidly becomes a show-stopper. Having them cast in a mold is the only way to get it done economically, but I don't have any shops near me that can do this, and I am not familiar enough with the materials to be of any help even asking questions.

Some of the do-it-yourself molding supply shops have materials that sound durable enough to be possibilities, but I don't have the space or resources to do VOCs in a pressurized, temp controlled environment. Currently am looking into outfits that might be able to do this, but label me discouraged.

Close-up of surface detail, this particular plate has seen many hours of use, note the lack of wear or deformation. Not many materials have that amount of compressive strength, still hold fine detail, and are inexpensive.

WfyKQT4.jpg


WnYjc2J.jpg
 
HeavyHanded said:
Currently am looking into outfits that might be able to do this, but label me discouraged.
Click to expand...

I hope someone with the necessary knowledge will see this and provide guidance. Until then...

I think you need to consider ABS since Legos are both detailed (the Lego logo on each dot on each block) and durable. Probably the issue is tooling cost—which is why I thought about 3D printing—but if accomplished these could be cranked out in volume, just like Legos.

Maybe you could play with actual Legos to see if the material appears durable for your application? This page indicates that ABS is harder than acrylic (PMMA).
 
I'm not sure if this will help you, but rubber, like in tires, can be molded to submicron features. Having worked in R&D for a major, international tire company, I know this.

George
 
Mr.Wizard said:
I hope someone with the necessary knowledge will see this and provide guidance. Until then...

I think you need to consider ABS since Legos are both detailed (the Lego logo on each dot on each block) and durable. Probably the issue is tooling cost—which is why I thought about 3D printing—but if accomplished these could be cranked out in volume, just like Legos.

Maybe you could play with actual Legos to see if the material appears durable for your application? This page indicates that ABS is harder than acrylic (PMMA).
Click to expand...


I think maybe Rockwell M might be more accurate in this case, which shows a substantial difference. For whatever reason the acrylic is a perfect material and most other plastics I tested failed due to deformation at the peaks after a relatively short period of time. Something like G10 might hold up better, or I've been looking into resins like this:

https://advanced-resins.sika.com/us...ng-resins-for-models-and-tooling/tcc-401.html
 
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