Bad Blade Exchange

Guyon

Guyon

Biscuit Whisperer
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A while back, Joe Houser posted this comment...

Joe Houser said:
I would really hate it if forumites felt they had to candy coat everything they post here. Hearing the good, bad and ugly is all important. I can't tell you how much it frustrates me personally when I hear the bad and ugly, it makes me feel like I just let down a close friend even though I have never met most of those that post here. But those comments are necessary in order to ensure that it does not happen again down the road.
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Well, here comes a small dose of "bad and ugly."

Mind you, I've already PM'ed Joe about the matter, and I've left a voicemail with Sarah because I was dealing with her on another matter (Custom Shop sent me the wrong knife by mistake.) I must stress here that I have every confidence that they'll handle the matter properly. However, I do wonder if other people have seen this quality of work come out of the Warranty Department recently.

I sent in a brand new 110 for a BG-42 blade exchange. I went through 20 or more 110s at the store and handpicked this one for its consistent and, to me at least, aesthetically pleasing wood grain. The knife I received back, however, has multiple issues, including a defect in the scales that wasn't there when I sent in the knife. I'll first let the pictures speak for themselves.

Lean.jpg


Blade.jpg


Chunk.jpg


The problems are as follows:

  • The blade sits completely to one side against a liner. Not a huge problem. I have other knives with blades that are off center. However, the original blade was centered up nicely, and I think this problem stems from the warped nature of the overall re-construction. (See next item.)
  • The back of the knife (the spring side) is so out-of-whack that, when you sit the knife on a level surface, it leans sideways at about a 20 degree angle.
  • The knife has some minimal side-to-side blade play--something I've never seen in a new Buck 110 with brass bolsters. Nickel? Yes. Brass? No.
  • A very small chunk of wood is missing from the bottom of one wooden scale. This damage was especially disappointing because, as noted before, I chose this knife for the quality and consistency of the wood grain.
I don't much like posting about a bad experience with Buck. I own and use an awful lot of Buck knives, and I'm a long-time supporter of the company. After getting over my initial frustration, I realize I will continue to support Buck. But I do agree with Joe regarding his point above. Without public critique, companies can get lax instead of better, and I want Buck Knives to continue to improve--just as they've been doing for decades.
 
Guyon said:
Mind you, I've already PM'ed Joe about the matter...
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Why stop there??? CJ has voiced his annoyance about these issues as well...Send him an email, and a link to this thread...He is also a moderator; his link is at the bottom of the Buck Knives main page...(next to Joe Housers)...
 
howdy Guyon!
well that was a good example of stating of a case that i wood wish all would do... you did not blast any one and
you showed a pict of what was wrong and not to show off but to inform and ask if others had that issue
and it is true Joe wants to know of this type of thing
he does not want to be in a 'kings new clothes" were he is not aware of things because no one wants to tell him...
if all post were as factuly stated it would be so much nicer and make it easer for others to also report issues...
i goof up a lot but i still want to know if my fly is open:confused: or i got a bad case of killer plummers crack:eek: ...mostly on the qt but even in front of friends ;) need to know... man i want some caffine!!!
 
Guyon said:
Well, here comes a small dose of "bad and ugly."
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...Guyon thanks so much for posting about your displeasure with the condition of your knife after being worked on by the "warranty dept."...More often than not the problems we've all seen and discussed in this forum have come from there much more so than from the Custom Shoppe. Getting the "wrong" knife is a clerical problem IMHO...It seems however that the "warranty/rework" area truly needs to be addressed and scrutinized much closer than it has been. My Custom came to me in perfect condition...but I'm still holding onto my BCCI 112 hoping to have the scale problem I saw, and posted pics of when I received it, remedied when the problems in the "rework or warranty" department are ironed out...Joe and CJ can't fix what they can't see...
 
Well, I should add that this case is an isolated one. I own ten or more 110s, from 440C to 425M to 420HC. I have a BG-42 custom, another such custom on the way, and an ATS-34 knife I sent in for a blade exchange. All of these 110s are rock solid, with the exception of the knife I picture above. Also solid are my other Buck folders and fixed blades.

This knife, however, just had so many things wrong that I felt a need to post about it here. Not to knock Buck, but rather to add to the concerns about the Warranty work. Maybe I should have dealt privately with Joe, but I do agree with the spirit of his post above.

I hope they'll make it right with some new scales. Maybe I can work out something with Joe so that I toss in a few extra bucks and get some decent (as in no holes poked in it :D) walnut on the knife. If they pop the BG-42 blade in another standard 110, I doubt seriously I'll get back the nice consistency of the wood grain on both sides of this knife. I sorted through a lot of 110s to find this one.
 
Buck_110 said:
If anything is to change for the better, it has to start with their employees.
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Maybe all that was left to hire in Post Falls was MacDonalds rejects and stumblebums... :(

Hard to believe that San Diego was any better though... :D
 
I hadn't really thought of the employee issue, to be honest. My ATS-34 blade exchange 110 is perfect. But it was rebuilt in California.
 
Buck_110 said:
Unfortunately, I highly doubt anything will change regardless. How many times have issues of all types been brought up, only to be quelled with promises of future excellence? Personally, I don't think anything will change. Different and varied issues are brought up and pointed out on a regular basis, and meet with no resolve at all. So very little quality is coming out of Idaho. Their employees are their backbone. Without them caring, anything that Joe or CJ say, want, or hope to happen, NEVER will. Because of this, there will always be the divide of California knives and Idaho knives. If anything is to change for the better, it has to start with their employees.
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Wow...you're a downer B110. Just kidding! Lighten up, Francis! :)
Actually, your post makes sense.

But I do think that without the proper leadership (not saying it ain't there) and with little tolerance (corrective action plans for employees, Quality Training and System...or the occassional sacrifical lamb - "your fired" Burn The Village to Save The Village), the inmates run the asylum.
I have to (or like to) believe Buck treats their employees fairly, but that means the employees must return in kind...a paycheck is for professionalism of skills...not a dole.

Guyon, you did a good and objective job. Just as we post pics of quality issues, like my 110 SamDam, they need to see the whole picture..."The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" to get the entire plot.

MERRY HOLIDAY!!!!!
 
Yeah, B110...we are on the same page.

My specific point is that if Buck keeps running into quality problems they better kick someone's ass as an example or initiate some proactive plan as opposed to saying "thanks for pointing it out" time after time. If I did that, I'd be fired. Pretty much work in an environment where we may tell you twice, but if there's a third, it's the last. I haven't been working where I am for 16 years in a sea of jobs being outsourced by spending my days saying "I'm sorry".

This is not about Joe, Sarah, Amber, or any ONE person. Look at their respective positions within the company. Joe is PR, Sarah, and Amber are CS. The two Mr Bucks are Chairman, Pres and CEO. But I don't know who their Quality Director or Chief Operating Officer is...maybe they don't have one. And being small, may not warrant a full time one. But SPC or other Quality programs can be ingrained within the mfg process.

Keeping in mind also that the average floor wage is just over $10, starting workers get over the Fed Min Wage by starting at $8 an hour (In N' Out Burger starts ya at $10.75 out here and you get to wear a cool hat and red apron), they have less than 10% of the market share, and have a warranty policy that probably makes their CFO, Ms. Best, sleepless on some nights, their margins are low but hard to determine being a privately held company. They're doing all they can to keep their 70% of product being USA made. But something needs to give or their market share will decrease which will increase cost of doing business (less units sold means more cost per unit, less margin, and wasted mfg cycles).

I like to believe they are doing the best with what they have on hand...but I also think they need to invest in some home grown quality incentives for employees or a comphrehensive quality culture infusion. Hard to do for a small company with limited funds and where workers, paid relatively low, often skip out once they get that type of industry certification (ISO, APICS, CRM, etc). That's why I'm a armchair quarterback. Easy for me to tell Buck what to do when I'm not living it. It's just that I see something on the horizon coming their way and the captain needs to turn the wheel.

In saying all that, manufacturing to Deming, Six Sigma, or Zero Defect standards is not possible in a craft environment. However, a Statisical Process Control is vital.
It seems to me that there have been a lot more issues being brought up here recently. And, so they say, for every one complaint, there are at least 10 that say nothing and just go elsewhere.

Thinking of my own experience in just the past week...I received a flawless 110 SamDam and a 110NS BG-42 that I love. But, if that BG-42 was done at the plant, the Golden Eye is a quality defect. We like it cause we're Buckaholics looking for the one off or odd...but someone else might see it as poor QC...c'mon brass pin in a NS? Someone is either hitting the flask, doesn't really care, or just not paying attention...choose your problem and any one of those is a problem.

Sounds harsh for making a knife, but Buck is taking some serious hits for their customer service and quality systems. Someone like Guyon that says the Emperor has no clothes is really doing a service by pointing out specific incidents with documentation.

Well...I'm boring the sheet out myself. Sounds like me seal clubbing someone at work.

For Buck to be around for our kid's kids making USA knives they better do or do not...there is no "try".
 
chickentrax said:
Maybe all that was left to hire in Post Falls was MacDonalds rejects and stumblebums... :(

Hard to believe that San Diego was any better though... :D
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I received a stag/nickel/bg-42 110 from the custom shop after the move to Idaho, and it was absolutely perfect. :thumbup:

Doug
 
I hope they have enough time. I am totally committed to them and wish them not luck, but earned success.
 
the blade on my 110fg sits against the liner when closed .but i`m in australia and it would be a lot of mucking about to send it back
 
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