Bad Boltaron?

T

theHobbyist

Joined
Oct 3, 2012
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885
I got a couple of sheets of boltaron a while back and am only now getting around to remaking some sheaths... Anyways before I start rambling like I normally do, the couple of presses I did today. I did what I normally do and get my material up to temp, fold my taco, squish in the press and let cool.

My first press when alright but seemed a bit loose, I figured I didn't leave it to cool long enough as it was still pretty warm, but not playable, when I removed it from the press. So reheat and repeat...

After a full 20 minutes in the press I remove, same result, it's still a bit warm, but very loose... It actually seemed like the cooler it got the looser things got...

Now, several hours later there is no retention, the knife slides in and out with minimal effort

Could it be some bad material? I'm sure whats happening with it...
 
Something is not right. Either the material or your process. Where'd you buy the Boltaron?
 
Thanks Mike,

I got it from usaknifemaker.com, My process goes something like this. Well first I use a griddle, I know not the best thing...
But I start the heat at around 125/140 and bump it up to ~360 from there, usually in 4 or 5 increments. I let it soak at its peak, usually around 360 (manufacturer says 370 at the top side) for 5 or so minutes. Then off to the press. I leave it be until I feel the heat dissipate from the knife. 3 or 4 minutes I'm guessing.

I tried smaller increments, and longer soak times but still the same result.

Again, thanks for chiming in, and I like the new site!
 
What new site? Real site is www.RiverCitySheaths.com - there is an impostor site at .net. Hope you are not referring to that one. usaknifemakers are reputable, so should not be a bad batch of Boltaron. I had similar thoughts when my 30+ yro oven's heating control unit was going bad, but in the direction of too hot. Your temps sound right - is the material wanting to curl before you get it in the press? Does that when the temp is right. How far away from your heating source is your press? What I'm getting at is maybe the material isn't hot enough from using the griddle, or is cooling before you get it into the press. Some of the processes I see outlined here and other places on the web are a lot more involved than need be. If you want to be certain on the quality of your Boltaron, you can send me a 6"x7" piece and I'll make something with it to see if it acts like it should with my process - i've been using it for around 20 years or so. Best of luck!!
 
Oh crap the .net isn't you? good thing I didn't try to buy your dvd from there (I'm still saving up for it I got a little knife happy in December lol).

Yep it curls up like barrel just like previouse sheets did, my press is about a foot away. I was thinking that it could be bad because all of the other sheets have been spot on. I'd be honored to send you a piece of it. You're posts here are actually why I made the switch from Kydex. I'll try to get it to post on Monday. Your address is on the site?

In the mean time I'll probably try a different heat source next chance I get. (Read that as the next time my girl leaves me alone in her house I'll use her oven. lol)

Again thanks for chiming in!
 
If it isn't acting like others you have used, it might be they sent you something different by mistake. .I'll be able to tell if is the correct material. Address on website (.com) is good. Using a full size kitchen oven gives best results. DVD set (DVDs and workbook) shows my process, except I used a Toaster oven because it was done in a studio, the presses I build are a little more heavy duty, and I use a bigger grinder in my shop. Other than that, it's basically how I've been working for 25 years or so. Haven't had any complaints with it yet. Thanks, for considering it!
 
Hey there Mike, I finally got a chance to get the piece to post...

FWIW, I had an extra cutting, (I make 2 of all my sheaths for now) so I tried it again but went way higher on the temp, it was actually stringy when I lifted it... anyways, pretty much the same affect.
 
Definitely doesn't sound right. Look forward to seeing for myself.
 
I love that Mike is here to post up. Instantly I am like "What the hell is Boltaron?" ;)

Different mediums - different art - all cool!

TF
 
The thing I like the most about this community is that everyone is so helpful... even the trolls lol

It's really awesome that someone that some call "the best" is willing to help a new kid on the block.

I'm really hoping that there's something up with this sheet and not my process lol.

Oh off topic question for Mike or anyone who uses them, whats the hole spacing on the G-clips? I've picked a few up and am revamping all of my sheaths to accept them (prior to I was making my own belt loops). And by revamping I mean remaking them all!
 
Spyderco G-Clip hole spacing is 1", same as for the mini-TekLok, so it will retrofit any sheath set up for the mini. With the 1" spacing you can get horizontal, vertical, and angled carry using the Syderco G-Clip. For anybody who needs these, I always keep at least a couple hundred around for sale at great prices. The clips on the sheaths pictured have had a little material removed from the bottom to better fit the size of the sheaths.

RCS-PointGuard2.jpg
 
Hey Mike, thanks, and now we all know why I'm redoing all of my sheaths, the belt loops I've been making are an inch and 1/4 apart... Well that and practice... Anywho a couple just came in, I'll zap a few new holes in a sheath tomorrow at work and give'em a test drive.
 
i got some G clips the other day they are great!!!.....
DSC00121_zpsee9b2e87.jpg

DSC00175_zps41d86c5f.jpg
 
@theHobbyist, what knife are you making a sheath for? I have had the same problem on a few knives because of the shape, there wasn't really anything for the boltaron to grab onto. Molding indentations by hand into the sheath where the handle is can give you some extra retention.

A couple other things: set your press in the sun while your oven heats up, a warm press helps. What are you doing to work with the roll-up you get with boltaron? If you are flattening everything by hand before putting it in the press it may be cooling off before it gets in the press.

I like to take the chunk of material I am going to use, fold it in half oversized taco style(I usually do pancakes so I grind off the fold) then staple it into a pouch that I can just slip the knife into.

Hope this helps.
 
Looking good, sonil! Was wondering when I'd see some in use on your sheaths.
 
Got the piece of boltaron you sent me, theHobbyist, and preliminary testing shows it to be more sensitive to heat than normal. Will know more later today.
 
Matt Markell said:
@theHobbyist, what knife are you making a sheath for? I have had the same problem on a few knives because of the shape, there wasn't really anything for the boltaron to grab onto. Molding indentations by hand into the sheath where the handle is can give you some extra retention.

A couple other things: set your press in the sun while your oven heats up, a warm press helps. What are you doing to work with the roll-up you get with boltaron? If you are flattening everything by hand before putting it in the press it may be cooling off before it gets in the press.

I like to take the chunk of material I am going to use, fold it in half oversized taco style(I usually do pancakes so I grind off the fold) then staple it into a pouch that I can just slip the knife into.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Matt, I'm making for a custom I got from Tobin, much like the one pictured in this thread, third one down. But there are others too like this one I call "tank" . The material seem to shrink as it gets cooler.

I keep my foam in the sun , it usually runs about ~100 - 120. Normally when it comes off the heat I'll fold it place the knife in the fold, then place it in the press, usually it wont touch anything other than my hands and the knife between heat and press. Once on the press I'll place the top foam on it, remove my hand, then press.

The odd thing is that once cooled to ambient temps, I'll get a bit of rattle, even with the tape on... I've got a whole other sheet of the stuff, and a few sheaths to go, plus I'm wanting to make something for a couple of lights, and my multi-tool lol.

I've only been making taco style sheaths, I might have a go at pancake style. One of the hardest things for me is figuring out where to place the rivets (either style)... I've actually gone too far up and effectively made it so the knife wouldn't enter the sheath lol.

Mike Sastre said:
Got the piece of boltaron you sent me, theHobbyist, and preliminary testing shows it to be more sensitive to heat than normal. Will know more later today.
Click to expand...

Mike, thanks for taking a look at this for me! Can't wait to hear what you have to say... btw DVD is inbound!
 
Try a pancake. I can't seem to get a taco to have good retention and I am using the same stuff you are.

I'm definitely interested in what Mike has too say about the material.

Here's how I layout rivets btw, it may not be the best way but it works for me. This is for a pancake:

Sketch with a pencil onto the pressed kydex an outline of the knife but about 3/8"-.5" from the actual knife (distance varies based on how thick the knife is and how closely the material formed to the knife).

Make a mark on line you just drew just forward (towards the point) of the front of the handle scales. Do that on each side of the knife.

Following the line you drew, measure up from your first mark (towards the handle) 1/2" and make mark on each side. Next make marks 1" and 1.5" below (towards the point) your original mark. Once you have these marks made, continue down the outline making a mark every 1.5".

Drill your holes on your marks and set the rivets. Now you are setup for large and small tekloks, g-clips, a paracord loop system, etc.


Hopefully I put this into words well enough, I wish I had some pictures to go with it.
 
theHobbyist,

Didn't measure with calipers at first and assumed this was .093; it is .080 so that accounts for the heat sensitivity as I was using times for .093. Got a sheath molded and will finish it up tomorrow to see how it turns out. I definitely recommend using no less than .093 for all fixed blades, but to each his own. That's what works to my criteria for a sheath. Anything less has too much flex for me.
 
Yeah I just confirmed my order was for .080. The other thing that just came to mind, is how much pressure I got on it while it's in the clamp. I think on my next go round I'll change my position on in the clamp, closer to the edge... Right now I'm towards the center of my foam.

And back to the topic unrelated, I got one of the G-clips hooked up to a sheath (which now has way too many holes for my taste lol) I like it a lot. It's actually pretty difficult to take off at the end of the day lol.
 
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