Bad edge retention

Just for clarification.....from Aldo's website, the chemistry of his W2:
Carbon: 0.96%
Mang: 0.215%
Sil: 0.296%
Chrom: 0.069%
Van: 0.165%
with other trace elements like W. It is 98% spheroidized.

We should make a sticky: "Working with Aldo's spheroidized steels" or "Having heat treat problems? Read this....". And go into the issues working with highly spheroidized steels when doing stock removal, along with a huge decarb lesson. I say "we". I would do it, I think I could explain it pretty well enough, but there are others, like METE, who REALLY know this stuff like the back of their hand! And might be more well received from someone with a metallurgical background.
 
I always clay the spine, are you talking about edge quenching? If so do you do that with or without clay.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Just as more food for thought:

W2 varies greatly. If it comes from Aldo, it is likely 100% spheroidized. That means before final HT it needs a cycling at 1650F , 1500F, and 1350F to break up the carbide balls. Use 15 minute soaks on each cycle. If it is from some other source, it may be spheroidized or not. If it is from a non-supplier source, it may be of varying carbon and alloy content.
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^^^ Normalizing is critical^^^
 
BTW, W2 tool steel beats all other simple carbon steels in the tests I've done here.

Your results may vary.
 
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I really like W2 for the large size selection to choose from. I love your hamons Don that is also why i want to focus on learning W2. Thanks for the help guys I'll definitely be putting it to use.
 
I agree with Don, W2 and its equivalents like Hitachi white steel are tops for high hardness edges that cut like he!!. You can take the edge to incredibly thin with good results. Whittling a hair is not hard at all if the HT is done right. On soft tissue slicers, Rc 63-64 is not too high.
 
Wow, Im scatter brained. I did all the normalizing cycles on a couple test knives and just realized I put the clay on the spine before I started. I'm sure that will screw with the normalizing cycles.
 
I've heard conflicting advice on normalizing In a forge. I've heard some suggestions just heating up to 1600, 1400, 1350 then cooling to black in still air.

Without an oven, should I add more cycles?
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I agree with Don, W2 and its equivalents like Hitachi white steel are tops for high hardness edges that cut like he!!. You can take the edge to incredibly thin with good results. Whittling a hair is not hard at all if the HT is done right. On soft tissue slicers, Rc 63-64 is not too high.
Click to expand...

Just to second this. Or third. RC 63/64 is perfectly fine for a slicer. With proper cycling, nothing commonly available beats W2 in terms of edge stability and a hair popping edge. I use it almost exclusively now. 52100 is about the same, but no Hamon. Aeb-l is great, but again, no hamon. Hitachi blue and white are a small percentage better, but it's much harder to get that steel, and the sizes it's available in aren't as convenient. I did a set in 1095 last month, and the edge was chippier. I had to temper it down to Rc63/62. Fine edge, but no vanadium to help with wear resistance. I found 1460f for austentizing gives me the most consistent results for W2. I use DT-48 for the quench. Temper at 425 for Rc64/63, or 450 for Rc62. No need to go softer than that.
 
Big difference! I did two knives. Knife one was identical to knife two. I normalized both the same as 1650,1500,1350 for 20min each. They were both tempered at 425 twice for 2hr cycles. I tempered in a toaster oven so accuracy is ?, I did go by a separate oven thermometer. The only difference between the two was knife 1 was held at 1475 for 20min knife 2 was held at 1450 for 20min. Quenched in parks 50 at room temp. Both made 100 cuts on 5/16" manila rope and were still hair shaving sharp vs 6 cuts prior to normalizing. They both passed a brass rod test. Both bent edges bent cutting through a galvanized nail although the 1475 quench was less. I broke knife 1 and it bent 90 degrees then broke about 90 degrees the other way. However it did not flex back at any degree. Knife two broke one at about 50degrees one way no flex either. The grain was really fine on knife 2 and a little larger on knife 1. I may have over tempered them but was surprised to see the finer grain of knife 2 broke much easier. I also suspect that my oven is reading higher than it is.
 
What is your hamon process? If you're using an interrupted quench, pulling it out of the fluid and then dipping it again, it would be very easy to have a bit too much heat walk out to the edge and temper it way too hot in the process of dipping it. If you're just claying and quenching, that wouldn't be an issue.
edit: sounds like you figured it out
 
I clay and quench. Next time ill snap temper around 375f and when my oven cools I'll use it to temper at about 450f.
 
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