Bad experiences with the Sebenzas....

I have had no problems with my Seb i have carried it in every pocket i use it to cut basic stuff plastic wire ties rope things like that not any thing to beat it i know Razor has had some problems with his the same thing used to happen to me with my Commander and Crkt m16 it would open a bit while in my pocket while i was moving around fixing tractors..my seb has never opened on me Walt you need to check one out man i have customs that are not even close to the smoothness and just out right strength no flex at all no blade play you can take it apart and reassemble it to factory everytime i love mine and want another i am trying to trade my Elishewitz Phantom for a new seb

Tim
 
Originally posted by BlackRazor
Since CRK refuses to make their knives tip down due to some sort of arrogant stance as to how their knives are already perfect

-Robert

Interesting assumption, on what is it based?
 
Well, I wouldn't use the term arrogant, but I do recall a conversation I had with Chris a few years ago when I called and asked if I could have a pocket clip put on so the point was down.

Chris was confident that tip up was preferrable for quick access. Well that may be true, and I love my sebbies, but tip down is and would be better. (and FWIW, I have had a sebbie come partially open while clippled to my pocket )

Further, I've entertained the idea that maybe I could get someone that could somehow create a spydie hole in a small piece of shaped material and then dovetail into the back of the sebbie blade. Again, the thumbstud works ok, but a spydie hole on a sebenza would be better.

DaveH
 
Originally posted by stjames
Interesting assumption, on what is it based?

I can share me some thoughts on this. When I was having problems with my small Sebenza opening in my pocket, I sent the knife back to Chris Reeve for him to "fix" the problem. When he received the knife, he called me at work to discuss the situation. In addition to accusing either me or the dealer who sold the Sebenza to me of "tampering" with the knife (which was a totally false accusation) he basically told me that the pivot end of the knife didn't have enough room to accomodate a clip (which it does) and besides, he designed the knife with the clip on the butt-end and, well, that was that. While it's his perogative to do whatever the heck he wants to with his knives, enough of his customers have experienced problems with the knife opening in their pockets that I feel he should at least offer it as an option. But then again, what do I know?
 
Kelly, good to hear from you, and thanks for the direct input. I know that you had similar problems with your Sebenza staying closed as Robert. I am wondering if Chris ever described his work to you as "perfect", because I have never seen him do so in print, on a discussion forum or otherwise.

Robert, it seems that the Sebenza is not suited to your preferred method of carry; loose in a cargo pocket. It works very well for mine; belt sheath. Just because a person decides on a certain method of production that does not suit your needs is a poor criteria to determine how arrogant they are. Vague recollections of a printed statement with no context whatsoever hardly validated your point.

But there does appear to be a certain amount of arrogance involved in the situation. If my recollections are correct, you first disliked the Sebenza without ever having used one, then you bought one and sang it’s praises (again without having used it). When you finally got around to carrying the knife you found it didn’t fit your needs because of your preferred carry method, so now you bash the maker and his product because he won’t retool his entire set-up to accommodate your needs.
 
James - No, Chris never described his design as "perfect." However, I've gotta tell you that BlackRazor's quote below fairly accurately sums up how I felt after discussing this with Chris. If he didn't say so in so many words, I inferred from his statements that his design was not in any way responsible for the knife opening in my pocket. However, once I received my "fixed" knife back, it opened in my pocket the very first time I drew it. The current owner of that knife continues to have the same problem with it. Many other Sebenza owners have similar problems.


Basically, Chris said that his knives were designed for "work" and said that any alteration to the basic design would result in a knife that wouldn't function as well as his perfect design. Cutting an additional threaded hole for tip down carry would be easy enough for the Chris' factory to do, but they refuse because they are so defensive about their achievement of folding knife perfection. I got the impression that he felt his arrogance was justified since he had a legion of blade followers; he couldn't be wrong, and that the problem must lie with us, the users, rather than with him.
 
You guys that have had your Sebenzas open in your pockets...
Have you had the same problem with other knives?
The only knife I've ever had partially open in my pocket was tip-down, and it only happened once in several years of carry. It had a positive detent, and I don't know what caused it.
I'm wondering if this is something to do with some little detail like build, the type of pants, whatever(??).
The knife opening loose in the pocket has nothing to do with tip-up or tip-down, I know that. But drawing the clipped knife...is the thumbstud catching on something, or the blade just opening by its own weight?
My small Sebenza is the only one I have any experience with, and it has a very positive detent. I carried it for several months clipped with no problems, including clipped in the waistband and rear pocket where the spine wasn't up against the seam of the pocket.
Now I carry it loose along with my keys and other stuff, or in a belt sheath.

Having carried tip-down in the past, all my folders are tip-up now as I prefer that mode of carry. I've had no problems with any of them. Don't know if we're doing something different, or there are just individual knives with insecure detents:confused:
 
Robert, I don’t know why you feel I need to calm down, my posts are hardly ever overwrought of inflammatory, and I certainly don’t think the ones in this thread are otherwise. You seem to exaggerate your perceptions quite a bit, both good and bad, so perhaps a calmer, more reasonable approach would be warranted.

Kelly, I trust and respect your opinions, and there is no substitute for first hand experience. Any problems I have had with CRK products were satisfied amicably and without a hint of the attitude you seem to have encountered, and I hope that will continue to be the case.
 
Owen - I don't recall ever having another knife open in my pocket. In fact, I've regularly rotated four tip-up folders over the last year - a Ray Rogers intergal lock Companion, a Mictrotech M/A LCC, a Benchmade 710 Axis lock, and a Spyderco Endura.

I'm convinced that the small pointy thumbstud on the Sebenza is the culprit. It's "grabiness" causes it to grab the lining of my pants pocket as I draw the knife, so it almost acts like the Emerson Wave opener. The Sebenza that I owned had a great detent, but once the blade opened enough to get past the detent there was nothing to prevent it from staying open. I'm fortunate that I was never cut. As for the type of pants I wear, it's almost always blue jeans. There was nothing wrong with the construction of the knife.

James - Many folks have had nothing but positive experiences with Chris and Anne. I'm sure that will continue. They make a great lineup of knives. I think the Sebenza is worth every penny. I just wish I could get the 'benza with tip-down carry as an option. I've tried carrying it in a variety of belt sheaths, but the bottom line is that if it's not clipped to my pocket, I won't carry it on a regular basis.
 
I have relayed my experiences with the Sebenzas on the forums before, but I will do it again here. I had a chance last year to buy a matched set of Classic Sebenzas, both large and small. I got them pretty cheap too. Since they already had the typical rub marks on the handles, I went ahead and used them. At work, I used to have to open up several boxes each day. These boxes typically were sealed closed with some kind of fiberglass reinforced tape. Whitesh color tape,but still transparent. Anyway, I had these Sebenzas sharpened to my typical razor sharp edge. The kind of edge that will grab into your thumbnail without any pressure when you drag it across. Scary sharp. I then used the Sebenzas to open a couple of taped boxes. After opening up 2 or 3 boxes, the edge was so dull that a person could not slash their wrists with the knife. ??? I was shocked! I repeated the cutting test with both knives several times, always with the same results. A couple of cuts through that fiberglass reinforced tape and no more razor sharp edge. This disturbed me, and I went home and retrieved my trusty Spyderco Calypso Jr. with 8A blade. Same razor edge as the Sebenzas. This little Calypso cut through at least twice as many boxes! Maybe it had something to do with the thin, flat ground blade; but still I could not justify the extra cost of the Sebenzas. In this case, the cost difference was tremendous. I still like the Sebenzas and think they are rock solid and very cool looking, but I just could not justify keeping those, when my Calypso Jr. outcut them both by a good margin. I sold both of the Sebenzas. The people who bought the Sebenzas got them at good prices and are very happy with them.
 
Man, you people around here get so defensive and touchy... Chris isn't the only one, I see. I feel that people on these boards sometimes over spend on the knives they purchase and hence have this need to defend their chosen cutlery viciously in order to convince themselves (and everyone else) that they made THE right choice.-Black Razor


Amen.
 
I wear large jeans (JNCO, Old Navy) with very large pockets and have never had a knife open while clipped or just floating in one of them, tip-up or tip-down. Normal jeans have tighter pockets and probably open tip-up knives easier then tip-down. I don't think anyone here is lying, they might just wear different pants.
 
My Large Sebenza is my EDC for work. I had my large seb partially open on me. It was not clipped at the time. I reached into my pocket and froze... as I felt my finger brush against the side of the blade. When I took the seb out for a look-see, I noticed the blade detent had "kagotz" in it. Cleaning that out was easy enough, but the "shmutz" was some weird waxy stuff mixed with blue jean pocket lint. Once that was clear it was fine. That was over five years ago, and it hasn't happened since. But I keep looking for it!:D
 
I have experienced blades opening with both tip up and tip down carry. They have never opened very much, but have caused me to lose a little blood. It just seems to be something that happens sometimes. From the sounds of this thread it seems to happen more often with Sebenzas than with other knives. This surprises me.
 
I've read posts where people say they won't buy a BM 806D2 because it has the 'wrong' opening hole and they object to the BT2 coating. People say they want a longer gunting blade. A return to steel handles on balisongs. There were issues with lock performance on early SERE 2000's and continuing issues with rolling locks. Why do people think a 98 Commander is better than a new one? If complaints for knives $200 and under are OK, then at $300+, a tip-down option in light of accidental openings (even few in number) ought to be available. This carry option is available at 1/3 the price and less, but lacks the fit and finish. Spending more money on a knife should mean the consumer has more say in the design. Paying a premium for a 'custom' tailored knife, gee, someone outta look into that idea...:D
 
OK, on the issue of accidental opening in the pocket: I use the flourinated grease that CRK sells. Seems to dampen the motion of both opening and closing the blade. I probably take my Sebenza apart every month, totally clean it, apply a small amount of grease to all pertinent surfaces, then re-assemble. I've never had an accidental opening with this maintenance routine. I bet lack of regular maintenance, or using a light type of oil on the surfaces has something to do with accidental opening.
Now, as to "negatives" on the Sebenza, here goes.
And realize that I'm being completely anal as none of these comments really bother me, just trying to play devil's advocate.
1. blade shape and material- for me, the blade is the only thing that I have no "negative" comments on.
2. handle shape and material- could be more ergonomic, however, by being the way it is, it allows multiple grip positions and minimizes the profile in your pocket. The one thing that really does bother me is the slightly sharp ends and other transitions on the handle slabs. Seems that CRK could've completely rounded them for better aesthetics and less tendency to wear thru your jeans.
3. lock performance- Perfect, NOW! I have real long-term concerns here. Seems that the lock-up point changes slightly after re-assembly, presumably from different rotational position of the stop pin. What I really worry about is: is the lock bar itself wearing against the hardened steel blade tang, or is the stop pin becoming indented/worn from multiple openings of the tang against it, or both. I can forsee a day when the lock bar travels all the way over to the handle slab. After this happens, blade play is inevitable.
This is something that CRK has never addressed but really should.
4. opening method- I like! I'd probably prefer an opening hole, but this would definitely affect the aesthetics of the Sebenza blade by making the opening hole area jut out further. Besides, the blue anodized stud adds a bit of color and style to an otherwise plain appearing knife.
5. carry and deployment- I like tip up carry. However, it would be nice to have the option of tip down also.
6. overall fit and finish-oh wait, nevermind.- The only comment I have is that the screw which holds my clip on was ever so slightly too long and protruded past flush on the inner surface of the handle. This bugged me so I removed it and filed it down carefully. Voila! Flush fit.
And while I'm being anal, the extra hole on the front of the handle is unnecesary and visually distracting.
Like I said, none of these are show-stoppers (except possibly the lock-bar/stop pin wear problem. But I really think that if it gets bad enough, CRK will make it right.
My $.02.
Lenny
 
I just keep mine clean and well adjusted. Never one problem from the large or the small.

Tip up is what I look for and would have never bought the knife if I preferred different. I simply get what I prefer from the get go. There are too many choices out there to get something that you know going in that you will not like.

I have also handled customs that were no where near the quality and fit that the Sebenza is. That is my humble opinion and that is why I bought my pair of hard working beauties.

Half the fun is finding a knife you like, will carry and use. If this was the perfect knife for everyone then we wouldn't have a forum on knives.
 
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