Bad idea to use non-stabilized wood scales?

good points by Mr Niro. Also there are a few million non-stabilized gunstocks out there doing just fine after many many decades. But for really showing the beauty of fine wood I would go with stabilized. Following tips I got here, sand it down very fine then give a light coat of CA glue then buff it down until it glows, and that should keep it looking great for a long time.
 
NVM, started going off on tangents. Use whatever works.
 
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I'm obviously squarely in the stabilized wood camp, with the previously noted exception of extremely dense and oily tropical woods (e.g. african blackwood, lignum vitae, et al).

Do I know for a fact that any other wood needs to be stabilized? No, but I know for a fact I prefer using stabilized wood and I prefer the way it looks. I also prefer the ease of finishing. You might enjoy putting a lot of coats of oil or finishing material on a handle after it is made, and doing so over and over for the life of the knife. I prefer having that finish built in. Oily woods have the finish built in, as do stabilized woods. Surface treatments just aren't the same to me.
 
I use both. On my $150 D2 hunters its a toss up. But, I mostly only use scales of very hard and known quality hard woods if not stabilized. Cocobolo, Iron wood, ebony and the like. Occasionally I will use something like some figured walnut. But, many of the natural woods are so much more work than stabilized. Not long ago I rehandled a friends grandmothers kitchen knife with black walnut to keep it close to original. I used a tung oil finish. wipe on, let dry 24 hrs sand, coat, let dry, sand coat, repeat, repeat. What a pain and so much time. Stabilized wood are so much less work. Shape and sand to the finish you want and maybe a light buff and your done. Less apt to find you have a crack or something after a bunch of work too.

So, less work, less problems, less worries and usually better looking. Desert Iron wood and few other naturals can compare, but not many.
 
SteelSlaver said:
I use both. On my $150 D2 hunters its a toss up. But, I mostly only use scales of very hard and known quality hard woods if not stabilized. Cocobolo, Iron wood, ebony and the like. Occasionally I will use something like some figured walnut. But, many of the natural woods are so much more work than stabilized. Not long ago I rehandled a friends grandmothers kitchen knife with black walnut to keep it close to original. I used a tung oil finish. wipe on, let dry 24 hrs sand, coat, let dry, sand coat, repeat, repeat. What a pain and so much time. Stabilized wood are so much less work. Shape and sand to the finish you want and maybe a light buff and your done. Less apt to find you have a crack or something after a bunch of work too.

So, less work, less problems, less worries and usually better looking. Desert Iron wood and few other naturals can compare, but not many.
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It takes me 10 to 16 days to do a tung oil finish. Properly done and maintained it is very durable. I think the wood or handle material should fit the purpose of the knife. Utility knives should have artificial or stabilized handles. A kitchen knife should be easy to clean. My personal knives are not stabilized. I haven't sold many yet, and have used both stabilized, and naturally stable materials. I have 30 year old handles on tools in my garage, and they see temp fluctuations from -40c to +35c in my area. Stabilizing is good insurance. I have piles of spalted rainbow poplar on my property. I bought cactus juice to test some of this out, and if it looks goo, I will send a bunch of to K&G.
 
What do you mean by "cactus juice"?

I've seen some stabilized cactus, and it was really looked great!

I'd like to harvest some cactus and have it stabilized. Would it need to be dried all the way through to have it stabilized?

Would it swell back out in stabilization?

Is it easier to just buy stabilized cactus? Is there a good source?
 
Cactus Juice is a resin for stabilizing. From what I've read, its the best for the home user, but is a distant second to professional stabilizing. I have some spalted wood, that I want to experiment with before I send a batch out for professional stabilizing.
 
This is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. (My opinion has changed over the years)
These are the pros and cons of using stabilized wood.
cons - cost $5 to $10 more than non stabilized wood
pros - less likely to warp, crack, move
more durable
easier to finish
looks better
adds value to the finished product

Using a piece of walnut as an example, when finishing the time savings alone more than pays for the extra spent for stabilized wood.
When I say stabilized wood I do not mean wood stabilized with over the counter chemicals. I mean professionally stabilized wood by one of the big companies who have been doing it for decades and know what they are doing. There are a bunch of start up stabilizing companies that have end results different than the old timers. (I was one of them for a few years before I started having K&G stabilize my wood.) Chuck B. was one that advised me to use the professionals instead of doing it myself. Some of the best advice I have been given.
 
It's not that expensive to collect and curate your own woods, then send them off to be stabilized- $2-$4/handle even using the best of the best pro stabilizing services if you do more than 10-20lbs at a time. You just have to be organized and work ahead to be able to send off big enough batches. Walnut in particular is not a very stable wood- less than oak if you talk to the wood flooring guys, and that's not saying much. VERY worth the result. There are very few woods outside of some tropical hardwoods, ironwood, etc that we use unstabilized- though not all hard, dense woods are stable, they may surprise you. If you're mostly selling to people who are in town or in your area then you might be alright not stabilizing it and doing good oil finishes, but if you're going to ship around the country or their going to go into some super-dry house or highrise those rough edges make a handle very uncomfortable. Full-tang knives are the worst choice for unstabilized handles as well- if you're going to use unstabilized through or hidden tang with G-flex or another resilient epoxy will minimize the problems as the wood shrinks perpendicular to the grain direction, not parallel. Best of luck!

~Luke
 
So, generally speaking, if I use a wood that doesn't take stabilization, such as desert ironwood, does that choice affect the value of the knife or its collectability? Great answers on this stuff guys. So much knowledge out there!

Bob
 
Good figured pieces of woods that don't take stabilization are more likely to have
a positive influence on the value and collectability of the knife. Especially
desert ironwood.
 
Dan Pierson said:
Good figured pieces of woods that don't take stabilization are more likely to have
a positive influence on the value and collectability of the knife. Especially
desert ironwood.
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Another way to state that is to say that stabilization allows wood that would otherwise be unsuitable (no matter how beautiful it is) to become suitable for use as handle material. It doesn't make the other woods less valuable or obsolete, it just adds choices.
 
I noticed that Woodcraft sells the vacuum chambers for stabilizing. Anybody here have experience with this unit? Can the results (if done properly) compare with that of professional treatment?
 
s500yards said:
I noticed that Woodcraft sells the vacuum chambers for stabilizing. Anybody here have experience with this unit? Can the results (if done properly) compare with that of professional treatment?
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Not even close. These kits are good for messing around with some scraps, but exotic woods have specific formulas that must be followed for good results. If you have some spalted big leaf maple in your fire pile and want to play around, it will work in a very basic way. You won't get the same results as K&G or other professional outfits.
 
I totally agree that stabilization adds value- at the same time I think it's kind of interesting that bone, horn, and antler are some of the most sought after handle materials by collectors, and from a purely "practical" standpoint they both suck, as in being pretty unstable compared to even unstabilized woods that have lots of natural oils. OTOH, they're classic, beautiful, and in the real world work rather well.
 
elementfe said:
... at the same time I think it's kind of interesting that bone, horn, and antler are some of the most sought after handle materials by collectors.....
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Sales of bone, horn, and antler have dropped more than 90% over the last five years. Stabilized wood is one of the few natural materials that are still in high demand.

Regarding desert ironwood. We will not sell desert ironwood. We've been told by wood dealers some of the ironwood on the market was smuggled into the country. In my opinion, it is just a matter of time until there is a government sting with ironwood sales. The sting can be like the walrus ivory sting or the Gibson guitars violating the Lacey Act. Either way you don't want to be involved.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Sales of bone, horn, and antler have dropped more than 90% over the last five years. Stabilized wood is one of the few natural materials that are still in high demand.
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Fascinating. I prefer wood, m'self, that's really good to know, thanks!

Edit: though I have to say, in this neighborhood most of the handmade knives people bring in to get a real edge on, have bone or antler handles. You know the ones- lots of brass, bevel like a cold chisel, big chunk of antler.
They are soooo proud of em though, so I put a screaming edge on em and charge accordingly.
 
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Stabilized wood is a wonderful thing. That being said I use Arizona desert Ironwood on many of my knives as well as Cocobolo, Ebony, Blackwood, and some types of maple. If the concern is to make the knife last hundreds of years then you makers who use only stabilized wood have to tell me that you only fasten your scales with Loveless or Corby bolts. Peened pins will eventually loosen as the wood expands and contracts as you explain. I guess that I will take the unpopular position that good hardwoods can be buffed to a warm glow and last longer than most of us will live. For a really durable knife then only use G10 or Micarta and bolt it together and only use stainless steel and high polish it so no corrosion will occur. All that I am saying is that I can make a blade and don't feel bad stocking it in Ironwood with mosaic pins and telling a friend that the knife will work well for hunting. I am 64 years old and have hunted and fished all my life and I have lost dozens of knives but worn out only one to the point it was worthless. I personally would rather have an expensive piece of exotic hardwood than a softer wood that has been stabilized unless the stabilized wood is pretty. Just my 2 cents.
 
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