Bad Law

[cerulean]

I was looking through the Colorado Law Digest the other day and found an interesting case. The defendant was accused of carrying a concealed weapon; a folding knife. Under Colorado law, a "knife" is legally defined as a knife with a blade over 3.5 inches in length. The defendant argued that his knife had a blade that was exactly 3.5" long and therefor legal. The prosecution, however, measured the length of the blade from the tip to the pivot joint. Using this measurment, the knife was illegal. The man was convicted. Of course, the knife industry doesn't use this method of measurement, and for good reason. In the open position, you are actually measuring a portion of the handle with this method. You might want to check some cases in your state. There's a good chance that your 4" knife is actually a 4.5" knife in the eyes of the law, and unfortunately illegal.

 

[MCSwiney]

Cerulean,

Well, I don't exactly know whether-or-not this reply of mine will console you in any way, shape, or form, yet matters could always be worse.

You could, for instance, be a home/property owner here in California.

I sincerely believe that CA is first and foremost amongst the Union when it comes to "gooney laws!" ;(

("James Mattis you had better back me up on this one!")

Take care & stay sharp,

Michael Cedric

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"You learn something new every day!"

 

[Ranger]

I'll back you on that one!! Kalifornia has gotten out of hand with over the line laws. And with Gov. "Do my bidding, or else" Davis in office it's only get worse.

Here in CA it all depends on who you run into on the street. Most of the local PD (speaking as a reserve that's worked with most of them) the measurement is taken from the tip to the end of the sharpened area. Of course it's all officer discretion as to how he wants to measure it. I, personally, don't think that was an appropriate ruling. But, then again, who am I to say!!

- Kim.

 

[Tiger]

What a dumb law.

I guess if you are carrying a full-tang fixed blade the blade length is the overall knife length.

 

[James Mattis]

Was there something about the defendant where the judge and jury would use any excuse to ruin his day?

There aren't a lot of cases on how to measure a blade, but there is one in the California archives. Here's a link to a case I dug up, which I haven't linked yet from my web page, and which hasn't been cleaned up from all the highlight markers the search service put in it when it retrieved it.
http://www.chaicutlery.com/knifelaw/in_re_rosalio_s.html

Here the court held that you must measure a Leatherman Tool in the way most favorable to the defendant, if the law doesn't tell you to do it some other way.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001

 

[MCSwiney]

"Atta Boy, James!"

(just kidding)

Well, folks I don't know about you, yet I'm sure James Mattis may very well recall a thread I started a few weeks ago in which I brought up a very similar scenario.

James's first reaction, as I recall, was to ask what jurisdiction I lived in and why the worry?

Well, given that we (READ Californian's that got "suckered" in the last gubanatorial elections) have an egomaniac for a governer...there's no telling, whatsoever, what lies in store for us next!

My two cents worth (the rest of the money I'm saving for future legal aid),

Michael Cedric

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"You learn something new every day!"

 

[James Mattis]

The court case was, by the way, a split decision, and any time an appellate court sides with you in a criminal case, it means that you have already lost in trial court, and you have spent big bucks on legal fees, and so even if you win you lose.

But copy that decision and show it to your attorney if the situation ever comes up for you. It's precedent only in California, but the reasoning is basic to US criminal law. If reasonable people can read the law two or more different ways, then one should not be convicted on the stricter reading.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001