Bad welds in my billets

L

lobodag

Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
7
I have had partial success at pattern welding 1095,15N20 and 200 nickel . We have tryed several things but still have bad welds. we use mule soap for flux. my last try I had a 3rd generation bladesmith weld the billet and still looks like the others , It seems to not stick by the nickel any help would be great
Dave
 
Im no expert but from all the peope ive seen here make damascus they never use 2 different nickels
 
Hello, I've had some luck with damascus and you might try to add a shim of 1095 between the layers to be sure two nickel layers aren't together. :D
 
It is hard to get 200 nickel to stick directly to 200 nickel but I bet you have a heat problem. How hot are you welding at? Is the flux sizzling like bacon frying? Lemon yellow color? Any dark spots when you think its welding time?
 
no we had a nice bright weld , we started with 30 layers the 1095 is .125,15n20 was .063, the 200 nickel was ,010 .staggered the stack. got it warm than fluxed back into the furnace got it was enough to flux than back into the furnace till welding heat. packed it twice by hand. heat again than to the 50#little giant. cut down the center than into 4ths restack weld . (we cleaned the billet before restacking)
 
You mention "mule soap". Do you mean 20 Mule-Team Borax (pure borax), specifically? Some people have tried using Boraxo, which is a soap, and the wrong stuff.
 
Welding with pure nickel is a lot more difficult than most people think.
Make sure everything is clean and try increasing your welding temps by 50 degrees.
Del
 
I would hold at 2350 and make sure the heat even throughout the billet. I use 200 nickle in canister welds without trouble but don't use it in flux welded billets.

Fred
 
delbert, I know very little I was just implying the way the variety is . Ive heard people say its tuff to use pure nickle. So im guessing with 15n20 having nickle in it would be harder to forge weld.
 
hellgap said:
delbert, I know very little I was just implying the way the variety is . Ive heard people say its tuff to use pure nickle. So im guessing with 15n20 having nickle in it would be harder to forge weld.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, the problem is the nickel oxides, in pure nickel you get 100% oxides. In a steel with 2% nickel, you only get 2% nickel oxides, yes it does make a bit of difference, but not much compared to 100%.

Del
 
Del, if your working with pure nickle shouldn't you use a mix of boric acid and borax? Since borax doesn't melt until after nickle oxides start to form. Its just something I've heard a few times and wanted to hear your opinion on the subject. Thanks. :)
 
I think the borax is the culprit. Thats why most everybody with propane forges use anhydrous borax. Have you ever tried it? If not I will send you some. Email me your address.
Bruce
 
I'm with Delbert. You have to be very, very careful when working with pure nickel. You must flux early when pure nickel is in the mix, if you get even a little oxidation it just won't weld. If you're just starting out, try leaving out the nickel 200 and try just the 1095/15n20. See if you have success there with the same methods. If you do, you know you have to adjust for the pure nickel. Pure nickel has been the most challenging thing I've yet worked with in pattern welding.

-d
 
Nickel 200 can be difficult. Anhydrous borax is best, can also add boric acid 20% to the borax.

With that said, I've welded a bunch of billets with nickel, using plain old 20 Mule Team.

The only problem I have had, a guy gave me a roll of .005" nickel. After 2 failed billets with this stuff, I finally got one to work. I had never had any trouble before or after. Turns out the roll of nickel was stainless steel heat treating foil :)
 
Don Hanson III said:
The only problem I have had, a guy gave me a roll of .005" nickel. After 2 failed billets with this stuff, I finally got one to work. I had never had any trouble before or after. Turns out the roll of nickel was stainless steel heat treating foil :)
Click to expand...

Now THAT'S a knifemaker's April Fool's joke! That said, you know it can be done...I've seen pieces that had stainless foil welded in and was notably impressed....

-d
 
Hello:

As someone who was one of the first to use pure Ni in knifemaking (Daryl Meier, a few others and myself were experimenting with it a while back) it can be a PITA to weld, especially in a coal fire..(from the sounds of it..you are using gas or oil as a fuel source?)

Ni will pick up all the crud in a fire like a sponge and oxidize like crazy if you are not careful. Use of borax can and does work, but the anhydrous along with some boric acid and maybe some powdered red iron oxide mixed in will also help when using pure Ni ( I have been using this same recipe for 35+ years, but I have tweaked it a bit here and there) .

Now pure Ni will do nothing more than give contrast, and since it does not harden, you will get no other benefit from it. I employ it now as a "colour layer" usually in cores on a multi core composite blade like a Migrationary Period sword, or as a "contrast" in welded cable.

For contrast differences Ni can't be beat but as far as cutting goes...it sorely lacks in that department. If you are running gas you need a carburizing atmosphere..Ie, run it a little on the rich side as excess O2 in the furnace atmosphere can bugger you up and cause the Ni to oxidize heavily and then you will have problems sticking the weld. Using the right flux and the right "working habits" will help facilitate a good weld.

Make sure you are 100% soaked through on your temp as this is usually the number one cause for a weld to not stick, especialy using the thin stuff like I do...(I usually weld 0.032" sheet in 45 to 50 layers for the first weld faggot..saves time that way )..

Personally I think the pure Ni sticks like glue but it has been said I could pretty much forge weld anything except the crack of dawn... I happen to like the contrast that Ni gives but the lack of hardening really limits its use to either ornamental items or to the "non cutting" areas of a blade.

I really do like Ni and some folks seem to have a lot of problems with it for some reason...but it gives great contrast but doesn't do anything for cutting so...

All in all..keep it clean and get it soaked through..remember Ni melts about 300 degrees higher than most "welding temps" for most "Knife Steel" (Ni melts at 2650ish) and so it should really stick if you are clean and hot enough for the other materials in the faggot to weld...

Hope this helps...

NVHammerHead
 
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