Bader B3 or Wilton square wheel ?

Thanks guys for all the info. I'm leaning toward the Bader. I have priced all of them ( and made sure they are in stock) I think the KMG is a fine machine but they just don't offer all the features I'm looking for upfront.The Bader comes standard with an 8" or 10" serrated contact wheel, and fork arm attachment with three choices of small wheel size.The only thing extra to purchase is the platen, which there are several choices.I'm sure all of them have there ups and downs. Anyone of them is far better than what I'm using now, I use a 2 x 48 with 8" contact wheel and 3/4 HP. I will be getting atleast the 2 HP. It's pretty cool to be in a position where if I don't upgrade to a new grinder I won't be able to keep up with my workload.
 
There is still a law of diminishing returns. I agree, neither will turn out "better" knives, I have no problems with the KMG, but having run both I do like the Bader better. I own and use a Bader, I've been using my mentor's Bader and KMG side by side for a couple years, there's nothing about the KMG's structure that makes it better to me - it's a stationary tool, it only has to be rugged enough to get the grinding done, anything more just doesn't serve a purpose.

As far as the Bader being a "light duty" machine, there are a lot of heavy use machine shops out there that might disagree with the statement. There are also a lot of knifemakers who would. My grinder is 25 years old, still running on the original motor and parts other than the leaf spring upgrade.

It's easy for us to forget that beyond these Internet forums, there have been guys making knives on Bader equipment since the 70's and they are known for having outstanding customer service and outstanding equipment. How many of knives did George Herron turn out on Bader equipment? Probably more than everyone who regularly posts in shoptalk combined. How many other names could we drop that have been using Baders since before Rob was even thinking about building a grinder? Steve Johnson, Gil Hibben... a lot of great knives have been turned out on those machines and I've never heard anyone say "I sure do like my Bader, I just wish it wasn't so flimsy".

Ed - the way I recall it, you had specific grinder needs that Bader would/could not meet and Rob did. You also had one of his first few grinders when he was trying to get business momentum. Also, I just priced out a single speed 1.5HP Bader vs. a single speed KMG, with similar equipment the price difference is $250.

I don't have any problems with the KMG, many of my knives have been made on one, but there seems to be some Internet bone to pick with Stephen Bader Co. that just doesn't line up with my personal experience and that of the many knifemakers that I know.
 
I just remembered about that platen.
The one I use on my Bader is that double 2-inch wheel platen. It is made by Rob and can tilt toward or away from you. I like it better than the stock Bader 5-inch/-inch combo palten attachment
You will find that in addition to the goodies Bader sells for the BIII, Rob has some top-drawer accessories for the Bader and, of course, the KMG.
 
There might be good reason why the current model is called the III. It's a good improvement over the earlier versions regardless of how many folks like the older ones.

I'll vote KMG also. For me the belt drive is a huge advantage. I know that belt slip just flat doesn't happen in use and it's easy to slow a weak motor. I'm strongly convinced that the KMG offers many more accessory options, particularly but not necessarily for the shop diy tool modder.

For me, the KMG was much cheaper to set up, feature for feature. I would not fault the beefiness of it's parts. I think any of the grinders benefit from a solid base.

Gotta plop down the cash for whatever your preference might be, Craig
 
The original question was Bader versus Wilton, had nothing to do with KMG :confused:

The KMG is a fine grinder, have had one for 2 years. Don't care for the belt tension arm and will modify mine, but would not have a problem buying another.

The B-III is a fine machine, have been using one for over 12 years and another for 8 years. The Bader is not "flimsy", the base plate is flimsy until it's bolted down, then it's fine. This is my grinder of choice, based on use. Bader should get all the credit for it's unique design, that is being used by others.

The Square Wheel is the oldest design (I think). Noisy, loud and rough but probably made more knives than the others. Have had one since 1981. The new Wiltons are now made over seas, I would not buy one today.

Since we're discussing all the grinders now :) The Burr-King is the smoothest grinder I've ever run. I don't need another grinder but have come very close to buying a Burr-King recently.
 
This is a terrific discussion. You have several outstanding choices to pick from. If you ever get a chance...the best thing is to stand in front of these machines and grind on them...side by side is even better. It's nice to get everyone's thoughts...but it is even better to put some steel on the belt and see for yourself.

I'm not sure where Martin, Tn is...but there is a GREAT Hammer-in coming up this weekend in East Tennessee at Ron Claiborne's shop. If you are in the area, it would be an opportunity to stop by to see and run the KMG in person. Beaumont Metal Works will be there with machines setup for the demonstrations and for attendies to use. If you get there early enough, you can buy a grinder on the spot and save shipping.

Try it before you buy it and no shipping cost. Dang! I sound like a salesman...but wait! There's more!....

Anyway, good luck with your decisions and congrats on your new machine...whatever it will be....it's certainly exciting.

Sincerely, Rob
 
Ed ... thats hilarious

The reasons why i don't have a KMG is because of no customer service...they won't ship it :thumbdn::thumbdn::thumbdn: doesn't matter if you have money or not...

bader went out of their way to find the cheapest shipping for me.. packaged the machine like a tank... and it got here in 5 days..... My Jaw dropped..

now thats service..... i had the money... and they worked with me.. .. now that is a real company and and good business ethic...

the bader is well built..... it grinds smoothe .... I couldn't ask for a better machine..
 
Maybe I am prejudiced, but my experience with Bader was not a good one, therefore its just my opinion. I've talked with Rob about why he doesn't ship out of the country, and I do not blame him. He's been seriously messed over several times, and its cost him a bunch of money....were I in his shoes I suspect I would have made a similar decision. I've seen Rob do a number of things as far as customer service goes, that no other company would ever think about.

As Don mentioned, they're all good grinders, just make a choice and go with it.
 
don't get me wrong... i still want one.. ... and a burr king aswell.. ( someday when i have the bucks ;) )

theres no foolin us... all those popular machines are the real deal ...:thumbup:
 
They are all three good grinders. I don't think you will go wrong with any of them. I have five grinders and use my Wilton the most. It is also the first grinder I ever had so that may have something to do with it.
When you get right down to it, it's not the grinder, it's the one who does the grinding.
 
Thanks again, to everyone. It was my purpose to get some good honest opinions, and also to draw out some of the makers that I really admire. Like I said before, any of these machines are a massive upgrade from my current set-up. I believe I make excellant quality knives and all my new and repeat customers assure me of this.My goal is to go full-time and that seems to be coming soon.I did hear some of the little details I was looking for, but many of my questions will have to be answered through experiance. Anyway, I'm happy to be at a point where I actually have to upgrade not just because I want a new toy but because I can't keep up without it.
Thanks
Jason B Stout
 
Something else I would say about the Wilton is that it really is noisy. On the other hand though, it is enclosed and if a belt breaks you have more protection than the other machines.
Like someone else said, "They are all good, just get one."
 
I have a Bader with the combination arm, and I love it. You can do anything on it that can be done on the platen attacthment, plus you have a 5 inch contact wheel, and slack belt. The combo arm is meant to be stationary, but you can rotate it some, buy not engaging the small pin in the tool bar, and still lock it down solid with the clamp screw. I did make a new platen for it, as the one from Bader was not true in anyway, it is just a piece of angle iron. I made one with a machined face and the edges are rounded the same on each side, so when flat grinding the plunge lines are crisp and equal on both sides of the blade. I have never used any other grinder, so I can't compare them, but the Bader is a good machine, I would recommend the variable speed motor, on whatever brand you buy, I would hate to have a limited speed machine.
Hope this is helpful.
 
J.D. Thanks I was interested in that combo arm. I don't do much flatgrinding, I just need enough platen to clean up the ricasso area and maybe do tapered tangs, the slack belt will be useful on handle work. Can the 5" wheel be removed and attached to a tool arm?
 
I spent a lot of time researching grinders recently, and ended up buying a Bader for the shop. As one of our requirements was OSHA guarding from the manufacturer, the Wilton 2X72 square wheel was high on the list. The things that put Bader over the top: the ability to use a small wheel attachment, the ability to use the KMG platen attachment, and just IMO, but I thought the tool arm mount on the Bader would be more rigid than the tool arm on the Wilton, which is bolted to the sheet metal frame of the grinder.
 
My Bader has tracked like crap since getting it , no help from Bader after numerous calls , always gave me the impression I was inconveniencing them when I called... great machine , not so great cust service.

another option , Tom Krein just purchased the grinder making business from John Leblanc ( JL Grinders ) , not sure how far away Tom is from having available grinders , but certainly worth calling to find out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top