Bails and Chains

MCar

MCar

Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,996
It looks like GEC's 2018 run of #15 Boy's Knives will include a version with bails and chains. To me, this is just another example of how Great Eastern Cutlery brings old-fashioned goodness back to life in the 21st century.

Time will tell how these are received by users and collectors, but I think there's a lot of fodder here for discussion.

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My understanding is that waynorth waynorth had a display at the Oregon Knife Show of medium-sized sleeve board slipjoints with bails and chains. I was not there, unfortunately, but perhaps Charlie would be good enough to share some pictures here (and any impressions/history on these knives)?
 
Another point of discussion could be the bail itself.
We've seen a couple different kinds of bails from GEC over the years, but we've never seen this version. It looks as though it may be removable (that is to say, easily removable ;)). Does anyone have insights on this?
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I wonder if GEC will be selling those separately.
That bail and chain is just what I need to replace a "long lost before I obtained the knife" bail and chain on a circa 1926 Schrade/ Cut Co/ Walden, NY Jack knife I have. :)
 
TheChunk91 said:
Thank you. It's a schrade cut 1251 at 3 1/4".

View attachment 914036
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That is in much better condition than my 2151 (spear main with pen secondary) that is missing it's bail and chain.

Off subject:
I don't want to jump to any conclusions.
Is the first number that Schrade Cut Co used in the model number, the number of blades?
Other than no pen secondary, that 1251 is identical to my 2151.
 
The Boy's Knife display at the Oregon Show was presented by @knowtracks , for which he won an award!! Can't find a picture of it - darn . . . .
I was his lowly assistant, and contributed about 10% of the knives. Usually Boy's Knives were smaller and less "deluxe" than the usual Jack, often equipped with a bail and chain to help prevent loss. Did @herder start a thread with some beauties in it??
Anyhoo, it must have been tough to play Mumbly Peg with that darn chain!! But it was convenient to "button" the knife to your OshGoshes to keep it with you while you climbed the apple tree!
Here are a few nice ones from my collection.
ChainA1.jpg ChainB1.jpg ChainC1.jpg ChainD1.jpg
 
afishhunter said:
That is in much better condition than my 2151 (spear main with pen secondary) that is missing it's bail and chain.

Off subject:
I don't want to jump to any conclusions.
Is the first number that Schrade Cut Co used in the model number, the number of blades?
Other than no pen secondary, that 1251 is identical to my 2151.
Click to expand...

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Charlie those are some very nice ones, I particularly like the 1253. The aesthetics of a simple barehead single spear blade knife are quite attractive.
 
Thanks for the pictures, Dan!!:thumbsup:
And the pattern Charts, Paul T.!!:thumbsup:
 
Old 50s-60 Forrest Master in box with original bail, chain and combo compass/magnifying glass. When I was a kid the Forrest Masterwas King and I only ever saw the knife complete once before. Seems like everyone lost the chain, bail and fob in short order, usually the first day or so we had them as a kid. :)

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Here it is with my version, a Case Scout/Camp knife with a chain and a 10X loupe, I liked the idea but didn't wanna ruin the Forrest Master by carryin' it all the time, I wanted to maintain it's current condition since I've only seen a complete one once before.

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I absolutely LOVE the idea of GEC making a boys knife with bail and chain. But I have to admit that I'm kind of disappointed with their execution on this one. They've done pinned bails before (think Texas Camp knife) as well as the press fit bails (think Beer Scout Knife) which are technically removable, but are not meant to be removed, and are not exactly easy to add back on. Pinned on bails are very permanent, which I guess can be seen as a downside, but they work far better. Where a press fit bail tends to flop into the blade path accidentally, a properly made pinned bails tends to hold its position.

With these new boys knives, with bails and chains, it looks like we probably have a press fit bail, which is a bummer, assuming you don't like having your bail swing into the path of your blade as you close your knife. The larger issue though is the fact that there's no clip to remove the chain from the bail. So the knife is more of less permanently attached to the chain. Once the length of chain runs out, you have to unbutton the chain from your clothing in order to reach your cutting substrate. That's a pretty big issue, IMHO, which could have easily been resolved with an small clip.

I really, really thought that GEC was going to do these up properly, with a pinned bail and removable chain.
 
Buzzbait said:
I really, really thought that GEC was going to do these up properly, with a pinned bail and removable chain.
Click to expand...

They did do it properly, according to the way many old chain knives are done. In that regard I very much prefer the way they are doing it, a pinned bail would not have the same look as some of the old specimens shown here and would detract from the aesthetics of the whole knife.
 
Buzzbait said:
...there's no clip to remove the chain from the bail. So the knife is more of less permanently attached to the chain. Once the length of chain runs out, you have to unbutton the chain from your clothing in order to reach your cutting substrate. That's a pretty big issue, IMHO, which could have easily been resolved with an small clip.
Click to expand...

I don't know what GEC and Waynorth have decided on for the chain length.
Historically, 18 to 20 inches seems to have been the "normal" length, from what little I've seen.
That might be a little short for some people.
It might be possible to add onto the chain or replace the chain with a longer one?

My SAK chain is 34 inches long. To date I have not had to remove the knife from the chain when using it.
 
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