Balisong, why all the fuss?

The General

The General

Joined
Jun 6, 2000
Messages
3,625
Is a Bali faster to deploy than a good tac folder like my Spyderco Military? Or even my LCC D/A?

Hey, don't think I am starting a fight here, I am just interested!

As I see it the major advantage of a Bali is that the 'lock' cannot fail?

Am I missing something?

I mean the steel used in the BM42 is poor? Right? Why use this steel, when the rest of the knife seems so well put together?

Cheers!

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
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Certified steel snob!
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I think to each his own! I am partial to the Balisong. Do not wish to trash the forum with all the "my knife's faster than your knife" hooplaa.

I think anyone who practices the extraction of the style knife that they like can become dominantly qualified with such.
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P.S. Oh Boy!
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Best regards,

Sabo 29

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"Catch you on the flip side"!

[This message has been edited by Sabo (edited 02-19-2001).]
 
Private General,

I love it when trolls begin by disclaiming their trollness. As if by saying that I am not human, I can transform myself into some other animal.... yeah right.

The 12C40 used in the BM42 is not the Next Phase, New Wave, Dance Craze steel, but I don't think it's exactly 2nd rate. 12C40 is one of only a handfull of alloys specifically developed for cutlery. It has a good balance of edge acceptance and edge retention.

And just how many 12C40 blades do you own, Mr. Self-Proclaimed-President of the "Certified Steel Snob Club"? Do you speak from any experience, or do you speak from foolish ignorance? I own upwards of a hundred 12C40 knives. I use them. I sharpen them. I shave the hair on my arm with them, prune my roses with them.

Furthermore, one of the reasons that Benchmade, the world's leading manufacturer of balisongs, stuck to 12C40 for the reintroduction of the Bali-Song is that their experience has shown that 12C40 not as brittle as some other alloys. This is especially important on a knife that their experience has shown may get dropped occasionally.

12C40 is also very rust/stain resistant, which goes especially well with Ti handles. For example, pairing Ti handles with M2 steel would be silly from a rust/corrosion resistance standpoint.

The BM42 was a significant step for BM, a complete redesign of the critical joint of the knife, and a very complex Ti casting for the handles. Sticking with 12C40, an alloy that they knew from their decades of balisong experience works well for balisong knives, was one less risk for them in this project. Now that they have cleared those other more challenging and important goals, it will not surprise me to see them experiment with other alloys if for no other reason than that the 42 is the only knife they currently make with 12C40 and they would probably prefer to move toward commonality of materials.

Is a balisong faster to deploy than a good tac folder? Well, I've never seen you try to deploy one. You can see video of me on my website.

But, you are right. I can deploy my AFCK faster than a balisong and don't even start in about my Halo. Other than pointing out the lack of credibility that is the hallmark of a troll, I won't argue about it. But, a balisong is more fun and significantly more artful to deploy!


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
when is a knife not a knife? when it is a balisong.
a balisong knife is a form or art not just function. the people that collect them are the same ones that would rather look at a painting instead of a photo. my opinion.

 
Sooooo I am a Troll then?

Duh...
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I admire the look and design of the bali, do you honestly think that 'that' steel is ok? It is a 425M style steel no? For the record I have owned four knives made from this steel, all sold now.

One of which was the Supersweede (sorry bout the spelling)

The steel was poor poor poor. I figured it was a one off bad heat treat, so I tried another, same result. My Buck blades hold an edge about the same, 420HC and 425M.

Now the bali is persona non owna in the UK. Not a chance of getting one
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I am interested in the opinions of owners, who wish to express opinions on this knife and explain, the 'thing' that a bali does to you.

Oh and the private General joke thing is well known to me
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I was very interested to hear about the comments on the chat a while ago
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. So what, like I care, call me a troll if you wish, but I am only asking questions, OK?

Lets try and keep the personal content on knives, if thats ok.

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
Founding president and member number 1! Wana join?
 
Well, lets see. How much skill does it take to open a regular folder and have it ready to use? Not much right, especially if it's an auto. Now, a Balisong is a beast of a different nature. It takes some skill and practice to effectively open and have ready a knife with this design.

How many ways are there to open a standard folder? Not too many, but there are tons for Balisongs. I own a few autos and a couple non-autos and I rarely mess with them. I get bored with pushing a button or pushing on a thumb stud to get the blade out. I'm usually thrilled with them for about a week then lose interest. The Balisong and it's many techniques to open/flip/throw has kept me entertained for 6 months with my BM42 and for a few years with an old cheapie before that.

With a Balisong you HAVE to practice to get good with it and get the flow down, but there really is no flow to a basic folder.

As for the steel of the blade, I am very happy with it since it is not hard to get a good edge on it, it holds its edge pretty good, and (here's the biggie).... I have dropped it a few times on the blade and it hasn't so much as bent. Thats all I need with my knives. I don't plan to use my knife in surgery or to cut down shrubs, just the basics.

Mark
 
Good points, thanks!

You see my perspective is from a 'tool' perspective. I am not a MA so I do not look at knives from that point of view. Hell I buy what I like the look of. The Bali looks like a work of art, it deserves a lot of practice and seems to flow. I have just seen some film of a user with a BM42. Wow! Crosses the line between a knife and an art form. I think I am starting to see why it is such a specialised design.

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
Founding president and member number 1! Wana join?
 
>>Is a Bali faster to deploy than a good tac folder like my Spyderco Military?

Most high tech, computer generated design, lazor cut knives are much faster to open, than any old world knife. You can have them open with a flip of your thumb, before you can get the latch open on the Balisong or the safty off on a switchblade. Even a lot of the new generation knives are faster, because when you grab the knife, the natural position of the thumb is right where you need it to be, to open the knife. Where on a switchblade, you have to go looking for the button, because it's not in a natural place.

But the bottom line is, you can not compare the high tech knives with the old generation of knives, other than in their art value or in their collectable value. Also, they are still selling about half and half. People do not really prefer the old over the new, or the new generation of knives over the old.

But I do think the balisongs need to continue to evolve and improve. Benchmade does not seem interested in doing that right now, so that is why the job is going to the custom knife makers. I would like to see some of the old Japan designs resurrected. I get tired of looking at a copy of a copy of a copy of a Benchmade. Thanks, JohnR7 www.BalisongKnife.com
 
Food for thought! I must admit, the history of the Bali does interest me. I was told that the name '42' came from a number of American troops killed when facing natives using the Balisong in one night attack. Sadly I forget, when and where this was supposed to have happened. I was informed it was used as a kind of MA weapon and this supposed incident is what caused the Bali to be banned in so many places.

I doubt a lot of this story, any truth in it?

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
Founding president and member number 1! Wana join?
 
General -

The "42" name is only the model number of the titanium balisong made by Benchmade, not a nickname for balisongs.

The balisong is used in martial arts, but that is not why it is banned in many places. It is banned because of the bad rep it has received from movies and other various media.

I don't know much about steel and how they vary from one another, but I doubt that the steel used in the 42 is of poor quality. Benchmade is a highly respected company in the field of cutlery, and they research and test the different steels before using them in one of their knives.

Like BaliLover has already commented on, the balisong takes skill to open, and there are a variety of different openings that can be used to open a balisong. In a folder, there is practically only one or two different openings.
 
The name 42 is a model number just as the older BM balisongs were numbered 30, 35, 45, 44, and so on. I think the first number refers to blade length (ie: 45, 42, 44, all have 4 inch blades, 30 and 35 have 3 inch blades) This doesn't always hold true since the 68 and 69's don't have 6" blades.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gollnick:
Private General,

I love it when trolls begin by disclaiming their trollness. As if by saying that I am not human, I can transform myself into some other animal.... yeah right.
</font>
Click to expand...

Settle down Gollnick, it was a genuine question. Maybe he's currently a die-hard microholic fan or a fixed-blade nut, and is curious about these balisongs. It's not like he flat out said, "I think these butterfly knives suck, my folder is better."
I dont know, I think all this Gemini hoopla has gotten to your head and is making you jump to conclusions.



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~Howdy

"Wow, BOB, Wow!" - the Arm
http://www.firewalkwithme.org
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The General:
I was told that the name '42' came from a number of American troops killed when facing natives using the Balisong in one night attack.
</font>
Click to expand...

I don't know where you heard this, but its pure BS cr@p. Or maybe you really are a troll
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How do you explain the other model numbers Benchmade produced, like #45, #44, #30, etc... ?

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~Howdy

"Wow, BOB, Wow!" - the Arm
http://www.firewalkwithme.org

[This message has been edited by Cpt. Howdy (edited 02-18-2001).]
 
LOL..........

Hey General, I bet you wandered in here because you heard we were a bunch of friendly guys.

.......... what a surprise huh! LOL

My take on the "fast deployment" thing IS, and always has been this:

The speed at which the knife opens is MUCH less important than the sense of awareness it takes to know when you actually need it.

Once you understand that, you'll see that it's the person and not the weapon that makes all the difference.


Sorry......... but you did ask.

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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
No thats cool Clay, I think I understand now. The Bali is more than a knife, it is like the Katana is more to a swordsman? I can understand that at least. It is the personification of an art form. And yes I consider the Martial ARTS to be just that. Quite a few of my friends do Marbo. I can respect the dedication and respect required to learn the use of a Bali. Heck a few years ago I became quite skilled with the rice flail. Believe me or not, I put in many hours with them and could use two at the same time (just about). After seeing the vid clip of a bali in use, it struck a chord in me. I was wrong about the bali, it is more than any knife. Same thing about the Gunting, it is more than a pocket knife as well. Hope I did not offend or insult anyone.

Respect and best wishes.

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
Founding president and member number 1! Wana join?
 
i sure hope you don't blow up on ME like that,Gollnick.
confused.gif


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Mario Givens
www.angelfire.com/extreme/balisongknives
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The General:
Food for thought! I must admit, the history of the Bali does interest me. I was told that the name '42' came from a number of American troops killed when facing natives using the Balisong in one night attack.</font>
Click to expand...

I guess there's a confusion here between 42 & 29
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29 ("ventinueve" in Spanish) is a nickname for balisong. It *might* come from such kind of legend (a Filipino guy who would have killed 29 opponents with his bali). But it's a legend.

Guillaume

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www.balisong.net
 
I have to agree with most of the people here in that I use my bali mostly for fun but they do end up doing alot of work. My 42's are definetly my main carries unless I'm at work and they kinda frown on them on military bases.
 
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