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Does anyone know if it illegal to carry concealed a Balisong in the State of New York?
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Balisong's legal in NY????
- Thread starter Guntaholic
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I don't know for sure, but it's New York, it's probably illegal to think about concealing one.
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Usual Suspect
Ipsa scientia potestas est aut disce aut discede
Some of my Knives and other neat things
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Usual Suspect
Ipsa scientia potestas est aut disce aut discede
Some of my Knives and other neat things
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i do know they are legal in new jersey... new york im not sure.
try the legal forum section tho.
try the legal forum section tho.
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Balisongs are not explicitly listed in the New York State penal code, but were classified arbitrarily as "gravity knives" by AG Vacco's office during his term. I have no reason to believe Democrat AG Spitzer would want you to own a butterfly knife if his Republican predecessor did not, so it's reasonable to assume that butterfly knives are considered illegal throughout New York.
This information comes to me by way of a knife shop owner. Apparently, Vacco's office contacted them and told them butterfly knives were to be considered gravity knives. The shop owner was not allowed to sell the remaining stock; the store took a loss on this merchandise, and only the gods know how they chose to dispose of these suddenly illegal non-gravity gravity knives.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
This information comes to me by way of a knife shop owner. Apparently, Vacco's office contacted them and told them butterfly knives were to be considered gravity knives. The shop owner was not allowed to sell the remaining stock; the store took a loss on this merchandise, and only the gods know how they chose to dispose of these suddenly illegal non-gravity gravity knives.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
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Thanks for all the info... Seems to me just about everything is illegal NY
I know my description doesn't say so, but I'm from NY...just moved to NC less than a month ago.
Anywhere in NYC (including Staten Island[even though it might seem like it's not the city]) it is illegal to own a balisong. I believe it is explicitly written in law, where the word "butterfly knife" is used. I used to live in Long Island (4 years ago) and I know they were legal there...I can remember 2 store that sold them in my area. Outside of Long Island (Strong Island, for any of you islanders) and NYC, I don't know what the laws are. I don't believe that it is legal to conceal any knife in NY unless the blade is less than a certain length (I don't remember the number). You are permitted to have a blade of 4" or less that is visible. The pocket clip attached to your pants is O.K. I also read some law written that you may not carry a knife (I dont remember what kind or length limit) of some sort in NYC parks.
I don't know what area of NY you are in, so I'm trying to give you the break down of all areas as best I can. Remember that different towns and counties have different laws as well. I'm sure Nassau county has some different laws than Suffolk [I never remember how to spell that]. Hope I helped you out there.
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Steve
(Third Mate...hired!)
Anywhere in NYC (including Staten Island[even though it might seem like it's not the city]) it is illegal to own a balisong. I believe it is explicitly written in law, where the word "butterfly knife" is used. I used to live in Long Island (4 years ago) and I know they were legal there...I can remember 2 store that sold them in my area. Outside of Long Island (Strong Island, for any of you islanders) and NYC, I don't know what the laws are. I don't believe that it is legal to conceal any knife in NY unless the blade is less than a certain length (I don't remember the number). You are permitted to have a blade of 4" or less that is visible. The pocket clip attached to your pants is O.K. I also read some law written that you may not carry a knife (I dont remember what kind or length limit) of some sort in NYC parks.
I don't know what area of NY you are in, so I'm trying to give you the break down of all areas as best I can. Remember that different towns and counties have different laws as well. I'm sure Nassau county has some different laws than Suffolk [I never remember how to spell that]. Hope I helped you out there.
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Steve
(Third Mate...hired!)
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Local regulations in NYC do not apply to, and are general more strict than, the laws that apply to the rest of New York State.
Here, again, is the excerpt from the New York State Penal Code that most directly applies:
The section does not address the issue of concealment, and you should assume the arresting officer is allowed to use discretion in these instances. Most importantly, it is not accurate to say "the pocket clip attached to your pocket is OK." This has been the subject of some debate in municipalities where the concealment issue is addressed by law, but it is not part of this section in the NYS Penal Code.
At this time, there is NO, I repeat, NO length specification at the State level. NYC may have explicit rules about blade length, but there is no such rule -- either positively or negatively -- for the state. Several times lawmakers have tried to pass a 4" length limit (and once tried to ban all locking folders regardless of length), but to my knowledge these have not managed to pass.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-08-2001).]
Here, again, is the excerpt from the New York State Penal Code that most directly applies:
The section does not address the issue of concealment, and you should assume the arresting officer is allowed to use discretion in these instances. Most importantly, it is not accurate to say "the pocket clip attached to your pocket is OK." This has been the subject of some debate in municipalities where the concealment issue is addressed by law, but it is not part of this section in the NYS Penal Code.
At this time, there is NO, I repeat, NO length specification at the State level. NYC may have explicit rules about blade length, but there is no such rule -- either positively or negatively -- for the state. Several times lawmakers have tried to pass a 4" length limit (and once tried to ban all locking folders regardless of length), but to my knowledge these have not managed to pass.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-08-2001).]
Razor,
When I was speaking of the 4" or less limit, I was speaking of NYC. I'm sorry I don't have the NYC laws in front of me. They are on another computer saved that I can't get at the time.
Guntaholic,
Bottom line: don't do anything you'll get busted for. I've taken the subway plenty of times where a LEO is standing in the same car as me and saw it and never said anything. I know that doesn't mean that's the law! When I'd be in Manhattan, I'd just unclip it from my pocket and put the knife all the way in my pocket. That avoids a lot of problems.
Sorry if I was not entirely correct.
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Steve
(Third Mate...hired!)
When I was speaking of the 4" or less limit, I was speaking of NYC. I'm sorry I don't have the NYC laws in front of me. They are on another computer saved that I can't get at the time.
Guntaholic,
Bottom line: don't do anything you'll get busted for. I've taken the subway plenty of times where a LEO is standing in the same car as me and saw it and never said anything. I know that doesn't mean that's the law! When I'd be in Manhattan, I'd just unclip it from my pocket and put the knife all the way in my pocket. That avoids a lot of problems.
Sorry if I was not entirely correct.
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Steve
(Third Mate...hired!)
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Guy's Thanks for all the info... I was debating on picking up the Microtech or perhaps a Spyderco if it ever comes about... But I would hate to spend lot's of money on something that I couldn't carry...Thanks Again.
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GOD I love this town!!!!
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The entire NY and NYC laws are posted at Bernard Levine's site: http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ny.txt
And here's a quote, taken from NY case law:
In other words, balis are not considered gravity knives in NY, and are legal to the best of my knowledge.
Also, NYC specifically requires that all knives be carried concealed, and does not mention balis, therefore, as long as the bali has a less-than-4" blade, it should be okay.
I was actually thinking of getting a BM35 for carry in NYC, but decided against it, since I couldn't flip it in public, and the people I visit there tend not to be bali-friendly.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
And here's a quote, taken from NY case law:
In other words, balis are not considered gravity knives in NY, and are legal to the best of my knowledge.
Also, NYC specifically requires that all knives be carried concealed, and does not mention balis, therefore, as long as the bali has a less-than-4" blade, it should be okay.
I was actually thinking of getting a BM35 for carry in NYC, but decided against it, since I couldn't flip it in public, and the people I visit there tend not to be bali-friendly.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
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Yes, that was true in 1987, and remained true until the term of Attorney General Vacco, whose office started treating butterfly knives as "gravity knives." A few years ago (when Vacco was in office), I stopped at a knife store in town that used to sell balisongs. When I inquired as to why they no longer had any, I was told they were sent a letter by Vacco's office. The letter stated that the store could no longer sell butterfly knives. They were forced to take a loss on the stock on hand.
Now, it could be that Attorney General Spitzer has other things on his mind (like suing gun manufacturers for crimes committed with their guns) but, on the basis of this personal experience, I'm warning each and every one of you in the state of New York that carrying around a balisong might just get you into more hot water than one would surmise from existing case law.
It sucks, but that's the way it is, at least as far as I can tell. I'd love to be wrong about it, though.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-09-2001).]
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It might not. In fact, if you got a decent judge, it almost certainly wouldn't. But given the ubiquity of left-leaning, hypocrite judges* in New York, is the potential legal hassle worth the risk? I've decided it isn't, much to my sorrow.
-Razor
*A good example I read in the news: a judge in Syracuse, New York, who was notorious for his refusal to grant CCW permits to applicants in his county, was one of several judges listed in a newspaper article who kept a handgun with him in court for self defense. This judge was forced off the bench after he made some offensive, racist comments. It came as no surprise to gun owners in that county, who knew him to be a disgusting excuse for a human being.
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AKTI #A000845
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-10-2001).]
-Razor
*A good example I read in the news: a judge in Syracuse, New York, who was notorious for his refusal to grant CCW permits to applicants in his county, was one of several judges listed in a newspaper article who kept a handgun with him in court for self defense. This judge was forced off the bench after he made some offensive, racist comments. It came as no surprise to gun owners in that county, who knew him to be a disgusting excuse for a human being.
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AKTI #A000845
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-10-2001).]
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Unless someone knows new case law (not just a letter from the Attorney General, which has absolutely no standing as law), then balis are still legal in NY.
It might be a hassle, but it's a hassle in Mass, as well, even though there is no gravity knife statute, at all, there.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
It might be a hassle, but it's a hassle in Mass, as well, even though there is no gravity knife statute, at all, there.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
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It may not have standing as law, but the Attorney General's office has a direct bearing on how a cop will treat you if he finds one on you. Let's be clear about the potential outcome of this hassle: you get arrested and charged with a crime, you have to live with a trial hanging over you for months, and you have to pay a lawyer and court costs (which, depending on the case, could add up to serious money). On top of that, you have to hope you win. Since the original poster asked about whether it was legal to carry a balisong in NY, I think all this has direct bearing.
Technically, you're correct -- unless case law changes, balisongs are legal. But it's my guess that when someone asks, "Is this knife legal to carry in this state," what they're really asking is, "If I carry this knife, am I going to get arrested for it?" I guess I'm using the arrest rather than the conviction as the standard, since I believe in giving the police absolutely no reason whatsoever to detain me or otherwise interfere in my life. That would seem to me to be a sensible policy.
Something else to consider: do you want yours to be the case that changes the case law? If the Attorney General decides a balisong is a gravity knife, then he's working under the assumption that the knife is illegal. In court, he's going to try and prove that. Balisongs have been construed, incorrectly, as gravity knives in other states. Do you want to risk that?
Balisongs are a lot of fun, and I'd carry one if I thought it was safe to do so. But I don't think it is.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-11-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-11-2001).]
Technically, you're correct -- unless case law changes, balisongs are legal. But it's my guess that when someone asks, "Is this knife legal to carry in this state," what they're really asking is, "If I carry this knife, am I going to get arrested for it?" I guess I'm using the arrest rather than the conviction as the standard, since I believe in giving the police absolutely no reason whatsoever to detain me or otherwise interfere in my life. That would seem to me to be a sensible policy.
Something else to consider: do you want yours to be the case that changes the case law? If the Attorney General decides a balisong is a gravity knife, then he's working under the assumption that the knife is illegal. In court, he's going to try and prove that. Balisongs have been construed, incorrectly, as gravity knives in other states. Do you want to risk that?
Balisongs are a lot of fun, and I'd carry one if I thought it was safe to do so. But I don't think it is.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-11-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-11-2001).]
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i'm in Onieda Co., upstate.
i was wondering about the legality of balis myself. i handed my '42 to a sherrif's deputy i know and asked if he had any knowledge about them. he said he knew they used to be illegal, but now the deputies just consider ANY knife (other than automatics) on how they are 'presented'. i carry mine in a mini-maglite pouch. he told me to declare it in a traffic stop if the stop came to the point of a search. other than that he wasn't particularly concerned.
i realize that this is a localized opinion. but i was surprised at the lack of concern.
take care,
rob
i was wondering about the legality of balis myself. i handed my '42 to a sherrif's deputy i know and asked if he had any knowledge about them. he said he knew they used to be illegal, but now the deputies just consider ANY knife (other than automatics) on how they are 'presented'. i carry mine in a mini-maglite pouch. he told me to declare it in a traffic stop if the stop came to the point of a search. other than that he wasn't particularly concerned.
i realize that this is a localized opinion. but i was surprised at the lack of concern.
take care,
rob
unless they have a warrant and enter your house looking for it, I wouldnt be too concerned. If you get caught with it in your car, they'll probably confinscate it at most. If it goes to trial, you have a precedent and even if that goes bad, it wont be jail time. I remember that racist pig of a judge. It really set me off. He presided over my mock trial case when I was in HS. In case youre wondering I live in Onondaga Co right by oneida lake
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Every officer is going to be different, Nate, and I don't think you can count on getting off with a simple confiscation. Don't minimize the hassle of even a misdemeanor weapons conviction, either; I myself would prefer to live my entire life with a clean record.
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845
-Razor
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AKTI #A000845