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Balistol and glue between handle scales

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Nicolai, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    Hi guys, first post on this forum :) English is not my main langue since i live in Denmark, so please bear with me ;) Well, i have a question, so here goes:

    I use Balistol for all my wooden knife handles. However, the last day i was wondering, could the Balistol penetrate between knife scales on full tang knifes ( the ones where the tang is exposed between the knife scales like a sandwich ), and dissolve any glue/epoxy used to attach the knife scales to the tang? I could not get rid of the thought, so i decided to ask you guys for some peace of mind. I hope i explained my question so it makes sense, as said, english is not my main langue ;) Best regards, all the way from Denmark :) Nicolai
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  2. DanG

    DanG

    69
    Jun 20, 2001
    Several famous german gunsmiths told me that Ballistol is known for slowly dissolving the glue of scope mounts. So yes, your concern is well-founded.
     
  3. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi
    I doubt there is much to worry about,
    you can always ask ballistol directly
    Read all about it
    http://www.ballistol.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/MSDS_TECH_BIO.pdf

    Ballistol contains the following ingredients:
    Mineral Oil
    Potassium Oleate
    Ammonium Oleate
    Oleic Acid
    Benzyl Alcohol
    Amyl Alcohol
    Isobutyl Alcohol
    Benzyl Acetate
    Anethole
    Isohexane (aerosol only)


    Ballistol is fully compatible with all metals including aluminum. However, Ballistol dissolves traces of copper, zinc, lead
    and tombac and can, therefore, be used to clean brass, bronze and silver.
    BallistoL is compatible with all types of unfinished woods. Ballistol is compatible with paints and varnishes which are
    chemically resistant to petroleum. Caution is recommended when using Ballistol on antique furniture or antique musical
    instruments. Paints and varnishes from past centuries may not be resistant to Ballistol.


    Ballistol and Ugly, Dirty, Glue!!!! | BladeForums.com
     
  4. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    Thanks for the reply guys :)
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  5. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    I just contacted Balistol, just to be sure :) Btw, if i need a oil that can be used to preserve any type of wood, is non toxic, is totally safe on glue, what do you guys recommend in the case that i quit using Balistol? And is it okey to change the oil used to preserve a piece of wood, when i already have started with using Ballistol?

    Best regards, Nicolai
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
    bucketstove likes this.
  6. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    As a substitute for ballistol mineral oil,
    you can use mineral oil from the pharamacy (cheapest unscented)
    or baby oil (cheapest scented)
    or butcher block oil (expensive) ...

    But,
    I'm not sure why you're adding it to wooden handle
    what kind of wood is it? is it stabilized wood (finished knife)?
    @Bill DeShivs says
    buff on some paste wax aka Kiwi nutral shoe polish
    because
    There is no reason to oil stabilized wood.
    Olive wood , iron wood... does not need stabilizing.
    The only oils that should be used on wood are drying oils like boiled linseed, tung, etc.
    If anything is absorbed into wood, it will swell the wood-water included.
    Unless whatever is absorbed hardens, it softens the wood.
    ...
     
  7. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    Thx for the reply. Im not really sure if the wood is stabilized, i have never had a knife that i knew 100% had stabilized wood handle. I dont think so thou, all my knifes with wood handles looks to me like its not stabilized. Its all kind of woods, olive wood, pakkawood and a lot i dont know what wood is used. I was told to oil the wood handles, so they did not dry out. was that wrong? Should i not use any oil on woodenhandles? Since i already have used ballistol, is okey to switch to another oil now?
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  8. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi
    Did person who mentioned oiling the wood (knifemaker?)
    say what oil exactly and how to apply and how often?


    I wouldn't say its wrong if you oil lightly, just maybe not right :)
    pakkawood is stabilized soaked in plastic resin
    but any wood in a finished knife ought to be treated already,
    and only need maintenance waxing
    shoe polish paste wax is more durable than oil
    or more expensive museum wax

    for a bit of perspective see what the mineral oilers says see
    https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/caring-for-wood-scales-im-confused.927651/
    @Bill DeShivs has been restoring cutlery for ~5 decades (~50 years )
     
  9. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    No, there is no info on how to oil the wood. Since i gave the wood Ballistol now, what should i do? i would really like to keep giving a little oil from time to time, since it is what i have always been taught, both with wood handled knifes, wood gunstocks etc, and i am not really relaxed about not oiling the wood when it is knifes exposed to rain, dressing deer, and generel outdoor stuff. Maybe its just me, but its hard to lay down a taught habbit about oiling the wood on guns and knifes. Im not totally confident with shoe polish paste since i never tryed it. Now that i already gave the wood handle knifes Ballistol, can i switch to another oil product? Thanks alot for the link, i will read it right away :)
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  10. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    I just read the link :) So if want to try the Neutral shoe polish, is that okey to do when i have already given the wood Ballistol? Is it in generel okey to switch from Ballistol to another oil product, like tung oil of i would like to try that? I found this "neutral shoe polish" on a danish website, does it looks like the stuff Bill DeShivs mention in the link? https://billig-billy.dk/kiwi-skosva...Pjgf9DatZe0SXcNfyLClw0niriZP3FShoC7MsQAvD_BwE Sry for all the questions, i have just resently started to pay more attention to the care of my knifes.
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  11. kvaughn

    kvaughn Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    I've never heard of glued on scope mounts??--KV
     
    353 and bucketstove like this.
  12. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,

    Yes,
    generally, whatever oil treatment you use on wood,
    the surface will need refreshing/maintenance

    if you were treating dry wood and bought some Tung oil,
    you'd just keep using that since you already paid for it

    for finished knives/handles, neutral shoe polish paste wax seems a lot simpler and cheaper


    but then again, if ballistol seems to be working ;) I know, real helpful :)


    yes, this kiwi stuff is the stuff @Bill DeShivs talks about
    Product Name: Kiwi Shoe Polish, Neutral-04/14/2015
    Health Rating: 1
    Flammability Rating: 3
    HMIS Rating Scale: 0 = Minimal; 1 = Slight; 2 = Moderate; 3 = Serious; 4 = Severe;
    N = No information provided by manufacturer; * = Chronic Health Hazard

    Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
    4-Chlorobenzotrifluoride 000098-56-6 5.0-10.0
    Nonane 000111-84-2 1.0-5.0
    Oleic acid 000112-80-1 1.0-5.0
    Paraffin 008002-74-2 10.0-30.0
    Distillates, petroleum, hydrotreated light 064742-47-8 30.0-60.0


    Compare to another version of paste wax from same manufacturer

    Health Rating: 1
    Flammability Rating: 3
    Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
    Naphthalene 000091-20-3 0.1-1.0
    Cumene 000098-82-8 0.1-1.0
    Ethylbenzene 000100-41-4 0.1-1.0
    Paraffin 008002-74-2 10.0-30.0
    Carnauba wax 008015-86-9
    Stoddard solvent 008052-41-3 60.0-100.0
    Sodium polynaphthalenesulfonate 009084-06-4
    Microcrystalline wax 063231-60-7



    As for applying other finishes after ballistol mineral oil, usually the box or manufacturer has some tips, for example
    Application over previously finished surfaces.

    We recommend stripping the wax from the surface by using water and ammonia, following the directions on the manufacturer’s label for “stripping wax”

    Other oil coatings (e.g.: raw non film-forming linseed oil, soya oil, Tung oil, mineral oil, etc.).
    To prepare the surface, we recommend cleaning the surface with mineral spirits (paint thinner) and allowing it to dry. After ....



    update: never mind this line checking something @bucketstove
     
  13. DanG

    DanG

    69
    Jun 20, 2001
    Well, that’s german engineering for you. The bases for german pivot mounts etc. (from Recknagel, EAW and several others) are both screwed and glued on, the former for positioning and the latter for perfect “Kraftschluss”.
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  14. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    Thanks for the reply all :) Btw, i can say that here in Denmark, and to my knowledge Europe in generel, using glue/loctite inside scope rings is quite common. I do it myself ;)
     
    bucketstove likes this.
  15. CableGirl

    CableGirl

    198
    Aug 19, 2018
    What I have found with things like Ballistol is it isn't so much that the solvent dissolves the adhesive, whether is does or not, as much as the solvent penetrates and softens the wood itself thus possibly loosening the bond. Most cases Ballistol is harmless to the bond in the cases Ive found and I use it extensively on all sorts of knives and firearms.
     
  16. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    Thanks for sharing your experience with Ballistol :)
     
  17. Alberta Ed

    Alberta Ed

    Jun 29, 1999
    I use tung oil on wooden handles -- knives, axes, shovels, canoe paddles, etc. Seems to withstand moisture better than linseed oil.
     
    sodak likes this.
  18. Nicolai

    Nicolai

    15
    Dec 7, 2018
    Thx :) What if i already gave the wood Ballistol? Could i still apply Tung oil you think?
     
  19. fishface5

    fishface5 Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 3, 2001
    You can apply tung over ballistol but if you want to try to prep the wood to remove the ballistol that is already on the surface of the wood before applying tung you should check with ballistol how to do so, see post 12
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  20. sodak

    sodak

    Mar 26, 2004
    I'm going to try this, thanks for the tip!
     

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