Balsa for stropping?

[cziv]

So if you were applying different compounds to the same balsa, and only the 2 micron paste gave you 'pull,' it's safe to say that the balsa had no effect in that feeling. You were using that same balsa with all three compounds. The pull was caused by the 2 mic paste. Or am I missing something?

Stitchawl

Yes, I'd agree with your statement. The 1 & .5 micron - on balsa was like stropping on ball bearings. The compounds, being so light, allowed the wood to mess with my free hand strokes, causing me to visually guess and not giving the feeling of some drag when you nailed the edge like the heavier compound. I think the light spray is best on leather if you choose to use it at all.

Hope that made more sense.

 

[stitchawl]

So, my original question remains, why talk about different cuts in balsa (not different media), if you don't think there's a difference?
cbw

To give you something to troll with? :jerkit:

Or go back to my post and re-read the paragraph that says;
"If someone strops with a very heavy hand, and uses tangent grain cut balsa, they will compress the wood. If they use quarter grain cut they will compress the wood to a lesser degree. If they use end grain or random grain cut adjusted to a grain-on surface, they will need a very heavy hand indeed to compress the wood but it can be done."

I appears that I said there WAS a difference in using the different cuts of balsa, doesn't it.
Reading the post with comprehension will reveal that I don't think there was justification for using balsa over any other substrate, not that there was no difference between the cuts.

Stitchawl

 

[stitchawl]

Yes, I'd agree with your statement. The 1 & .5 micron - on balsa was like stropping on ball bearings. The compounds, being so light, allowed the wood to mess with my free hand strokes, causing me to visually guess and not giving the feeling of some drag when you nailed the edge like the heavier compound. I think the light spray is best on leather if you choose to use it at all.

Hope that made more sense.

It did. :thumbup:

I wonder if the fact that balsa soaks up liquid had any effect on your spray's result? My .25 micron diamond is in paste form so when I tried that I had no discernible difference in feel from any other of my grits. My chromium oxide is a very thick liquid, like very heavy cream, but when it dried felt just the same as the pastes or bars. I didn't try using my larger grits as I no longer use them for stropping anyway.

Stitchawl

 

[cbwx34]

To give you something to troll with?

Or go back to my post and re-read the paragraph that says;
"If someone strops with a very heavy hand, and uses tangent grain cut balsa, they will compress the wood. If they use quarter grain cut they will compress the wood to a lesser degree. If they use end grain or random grain cut adjusted to a grain-on surface, they will need a very heavy hand indeed to compress the wood but it can be done."

I appears that I said there WAS a difference in using the different cuts of balsa, doesn't it.
Reading the post with comprehension will reveal that I don't think there was justification for using balsa over any other substrate, not that there was no difference between the cuts.

Stitchawl

Not trolling... just trying to understand your reasoning.

You also need to quote yourself accurately. This is what you actually said...

If someone strops with a very heavy hand, and uses tangent grain cut balsa, they will compress the wood. If they use quarter grain cut they will compress the wood to a lesser degree. If they use end grain or random grain cut adjusted to a grain-on surface, they will need a very heavy hand indeed to compress the wood but it can be done. But then, that's not how to properly strop an edge.

You left the part in bold out. That's why I said, "which you now seem to say doesn't make a difference, unless used improperly".

So, it would seem that this...

Which cut of balsa is working best for you; tangent cut, quarter grain cut, or random cut? As each has differing surface structures there must be a real difference in your results.

... really doesn't matter?

cbw

 

[cziv]

It did. :thumbup:

I wonder if the fact that balsa soaks up liquid had any effect on your spray's result? My .25 micron diamond is in paste form so when I tried that I had no discernible difference in feel from any other of my grits. My chromium oxide is a very thick liquid, like very heavy cream, but when it dried felt just the same as the pastes or bars. I didn't try using my larger grits as I no longer use them for stropping anyway.

Stitchawl

My balsa with HA sprays were heavily treated but I believe most of it wicked into the balsa. They look like white, lightly primed wood. Not saying they won't work but I'm going to plaster some real paste on the 2 that don't already have any.

 

[stitchawl]

Not trolling... just trying to understand your reasoning.
.........
You also need to quote yourself accurately. This is what you actually said...
.........
You left the part in bold out.
........
So, it would seem that this...
... really doesn't matter?
cbw

Have a great day.


Stitchawl

 

[stitchawl]

My balsa with HA sprays were heavily treated but I believe most of it wicked into the balsa. They look like white, lightly primed wood. Not saying they won't work but I'm going to plaster some real paste on the 2 that don't already have any.

At .5 micron, diamond particles suspended in liquid might just seep into the wood itself. Certainly the liquid will. I wonder if building up several layers may create some change. But then again, it will be the compound creating the drag rather than the substrate.

I'm trying to logic out why balsa 'could' work better than some other substrate, and so far, it escapes me. At this point, Knifeknut's idea that he's using a 1/2" board, it being the same thickness as his DMT stone and can use the Aligner easily has so far been the only valid one I can see. But then, we can get MDF in 1/2", Maple or bass wood in 1/2" boards too. So what is it about balsa that caused the knife dealers to begin selling it? I really don't want to keep thinking about the Emperor's New Clothes. Next they might be touting chunky peanut butter for re-profiling!

Stitchawl

 

[cbwx34]

That's cool if you don't want to answer. I was just trying to figure out why you thought different cuts of Balsa was so important. But it makes even less sense now, since it seems that you can't even tell the difference between balsa and other types of media, let alone different cuts of the same type. I guess that really answers my question.

You have a great day too!

cbw

 

[unit]

At .5 micron, diamond particles suspended in liquid might just seep into the wood itself. Certainly the liquid will. I wonder if building up several layers may create some change. But then again, it will be the compound creating the drag rather than the substrate.

I'm trying to logic out why balsa 'could' work better than some other substrate, and so far, it escapes me. At this point, Knifeknut's idea that he's using a 1/2" board, it being the same thickness as his DMT stone and can use the Aligner easily has so far been the only valid one I can see. But then, we can get MDF in 1/2", Maple or bass wood in 1/2" boards too. So what is it about balsa that caused the knife dealers to begin selling it? I really don't want to keep thinking about the Emperor's New Clothes. Next they might be touting chunky peanut butter for re-profiling!

Stitchawl

Let me stab at a black cat in the dark here...

Perhaps the reasons it is popular have more to do with factors such as weight which leads to low shipping cost, cost/availability of the Balsa, and how easy/inexpensive it is to cut/sand/finish?

I think a "natural" material seems more appealing to some users (than MDF), and Balsa is one of the least expensive hardwoods I see available. It works fairly well...so why not? As another bonus...it sort of teaches a bit about "pressure".

It is funny that you mention chunky peanut butter, I was going to start a joke thread about using used motor oil on a sponge for stropping. I bet it would work....but not very well.

 

[stitchawl]

Let me stab at a black cat in the dark here...

Perhaps the reasons it is popular have more to do with factors such as weight which leads to low shipping cost, cost/availability of the Balsa, and how easy/inexpensive it is to cut/sand/finish?

Sure, those are all good reasons, but still, using a copy of National Geographic is just about as cheap, you don't need to have it shipped as you can buy it at your local book store, and it's already about the right size. So why balsa?

I think a "natural" material seems more appealing to some users (than MDF),

More appealing to me than MDF, that's for sure. There is something very 'alien' about MDF. I always have the feeling that it's 'waiting' to do something...

As another bonus...it sort of teaches a bit about "pressure".

Well THAT'S for sure. Use just a bit too much pressure and you dent the stuff!

It is funny that you mention chunky peanut butter, I was going to start a joke thread about using used motor oil on a sponge for stropping. I bet it would work....but not very well.

Wait just a second... Maybe if it's been in the engine a bit longer than is recommended, and has picked up enough metal we could use it for rough shaping! Perhaps a step before re-profiling.
I think you're on to something here!

Stitchawl

 

[cziv]

Uhmm....hate to sound like a complete tool here, but wth is MDF?

 

[unit]

Uhmm....hate to sound like a complete tool here, but wth is MDF?

Medium Density Fiberboard

 

[unit]

Sure, those are all good reasons, but still, using a copy of National Geographic is just about as cheap, you don't need to have it shipped as you can buy it at your local book store, and it's already about the right size. So why balsa?

I will freely admit that I am dreaming this up as I go, but to suppose an answer...If I am a knife store selling stuff to knife nuts, how can I fool any of these idiots with used magazines? Now, designer Balsa strops....that is another story!

I would hazard a guess that there are MANY substrates that will work fine in this capacity, but marketability is key...there are a lot of people that will assume that yesterdays trash in unsuitable for their passions...regardless of how well it actually works.

Again, I am typing out of my butt here, but I think there are a lot of silly products that we buy because we think it is better (and some that actually are better, but few will work as hard as you to figure out the difference)

 

[stitchawl]

Uhmm....hate to sound like a complete tool here, but wth is MDF?

Boy! What a complete tool!!!
(I had to ask last year . I had never heard the term either, although we both know the stuff. )

Unit has given you the full name, but I'll give you 'my' answer. MDF is the man-made wood product used make really cheap furniture. It's made from compressed wood fiber and sawdust. Very smooth and very flat. It's good for drawers in crappy cabinets, non-load-bearing applications, etc. Doesn't warp over time but will sag under weight. Not for use where it will be wet!! It will bubble up and even disintegrate.

Because of its hard, flat, smooth surface, it works well as a substrate for compounds.

Stitchawl

 

[stitchawl]

I will freely admit that I am dreaming this up as I go, but to suppose an answer...If I am a knife store selling stuff to knife nuts, how can I fool any of these idiots with used magazines? Now, designer Balsa strops....that is another story!

Frankly, I don't think you are too far off the mark. I know I've bought my share of different things (that have long since been relegated to the back of the closet) simply because they were being marketed by some company I 'trusted.' Hell, half the late night TV commercials are for stuff like that.
"Buy MAGIC ROPE! You can tie up everything! You can tie knots in it! You can even cut it! Imagine that... you can even cut it!! Get it today for only $19.95."

I would hazard a guess that there are MANY substrates that will work fine in this capacity, but marketability is key...

The old time wood carvers use free paint stirring sticks from the hardware store as a base for their CrO2 compound. Work just fine for their tools, and the price is right.

there are a lot of people that will assume that yesterdays trash in unsuitable for their passions...regardless of how well it actually works.

I was one of those people in my youth. Had to be the newest, greatest, best, etc., and most importantly, 'paid for' or I wouldn't use it. And, it I paid for it, I was certain that it WAS the very best! That's one of the reasons why today I have dozens of strops in my closet. Literally dozens of them. .All different types of leather, and all touted by a knife company as the very best.

There is a 'coolness' factor involved too. To have a paddle strop with four different sides to use for three different compound on one item certainly sounds great... until you need to set it down and realize that if you lay it down on the side with 9 micron compound, then forget and lay it down in the same place on the side with 1 mic, that 1 micron compound now has 9mic mixed into it. So you either have to be very, very careful at all times, or find some place to 'hang' it instead.

Again, I am typing out of my butt here, but I think there are a lot of silly products that we buy because we think it is better (and some that actually are better, but few will work as hard as you to figure out the difference)

"Chef's Choice" Professional Three Stage Diamond Sharpener. When it first came out about 20 years ago I couldn't wait to buy it. Hey, it was 'Professional.' It was 'Diamond.' It had 'Three Different Stages.' It was being sold by the same companies that sold Wusthof, Henckles, and Sabitier knives. How could it be bad?
I even managed to convince myself that it was doing a good job... right up until a friend came over one night for dinner and was looking at my knives and said "Gee, what the heck happened to the edge of your knife? "
As I said before. "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Today, my motto is 'trust... but verify.' Please pass the chunky peanut butter.

Stitchawl

 

[cziv]

Frankly, I don't think you are too far off the mark. I know I've bought my share of different things (that have long since been relegated to the back of the closet) simply because they were being marketed by some company I 'trusted.' Hell, half the late night TV commercials are for stuff like that.
"Buy MAGIC ROPE! You can tie up everything! You can tie knots in it! You can even cut it! Imagine that... you can even cut it!! Get it today for only $19.95."

Today, my motto is 'trust... but verify.' Please pass the chunky peanut butter.

Stitchawl

BALSA STROPS =

 

[stitchawl]

Hey! You've got a pair too! I told you last month we must be brothers!

But I disagree. I think balsa as a substrate for strops actually work, not like our X-Ray Specs. (At least they didn't work when I looked at Mary Sue Rottencrotch.) It's just that I don't find that balsa works any better or worse than any other flat, smooth, and firm substrate when using compounds.


Stitchawl