Bark River Northstar, first impressions.

[kgriggs8]

Hello,
This is my attempt at a review of a knife I just got but haven't used. Since I haven't used it, I can only comment on what I can tell from just handling it. In the future, I will try and add to this review if I do keep the knife.

I have heard some good and some bad about this knife but from what I have seen in pics online, this was the best designed Bark River for me.

The sheath:
I have heard the sheaths were not the best quality but I have not found this to be true on this knife or the other BRK I had which was a Woodsman. I am impressed with the sheaths to be honest. They are good quality leather that are double stiched at the very top and bottom of the stich line. They are also rivited for extra strength. Stiching AND rivits is a good start to any leather sheath. I also like the fact the sheaths are kept as plain and simple as possible. On the Northstar there is the added bit of leather on the side that forms a loop made for a steel but it can be cut off it needed or just ignored. My knife fits well in the sheath and I don't think it is going to become loose. It has a sort of friction fit where all you need to do to make it tighter is to push it harder into the sheath to seat it deeper. I think the sheath is a good design and of good quality. I have no real complants about it so far.

The blade:
This is what Bark River is known for, great blades. The steel is A2 so it will rust but it will also preform as well as any steel made. Good old A2 tool steel holds it own against just about anything out there in terms of cutting and edge retention. It will corrode and it will need to be sharpened but with a minimum of care, it should be just fine. People have been using high carbon steel for most of the history of steel. It is only in the very recent years that stainless has even been able to compeat seriously with good high carbon tool steel. The blade is about 4" long and seems to be the right size. I don't think it should be smaller or larger. I like everything about the blade, the size, the shape and the grind. It is hollow ground but it is a shallow hollow so it almost seems like a flat grind to me. I love full flat ground blades so this is just up my alley. It is a mix between a drop point and a spear point. I don't know what they call it but I think of it as a pointy drop point. The tip is about in the center of the blade which makes for an all around good user. There is nothing that this blade design can't do well. It is not going to be the best blade at many tasks but it will be a good blade a most any task. I like the serration on the back of the spine where the thumb naturally sits and on the front where the index finger rests. The blade is 3/16" thick which sounds too thick but I have a feeling that it will cut like a much thinner blade do to the way it is ground.

cont.

 

[kgriggs8]

cont.

Handle,
This is where I have some issues. The handle is a little too short for even my medium sized hands. The G-10 is polish glass smooth which makes it as slick as if it were made of actual glass. The base of the grip flares out and forces your hand towards the blade. This makes it a little scary since there is no gaurd at all and the handle is smooth.

Suggested improvments:
Add a inch to the handle, it would make all the difference in the world to feeling like you can control this knife. Rough up the handle slabs a bit and add some texture for grip. Add a small gaurd. Have a swell in the middle or top of the handle instead of at the base. Taper the tang. Round off the edges at the base of the grip. Why are there sharp corners on the handle at all?

The good news is, I think most of these things can be modified yourself. You can add texture or grip to the G-10 by either adding grip tape or using rough sandpaper. The base of the grip can be thinned out and reprofiled to make it more ergonomic. With these improvments, the gaurd will not be needed.

Maybe I will make this my project knife since it is clearly worth the time and effort. It is really close to being perfect. I would like a slightly longer handle and maybe a bit more blade if the handle was larger. Might as well thin out the blade a bit as well. Does it need to be so thick really? But I think this knife has potential of being a really good fixed blade for outdoor use.

P.S., I love the orange G-10 color! I like orange and this is really orange!

 

[LaBella]

I loves me some Barkies!

not many here, seem to though?!

 

[jokrswylde]

Is it really hollow ground? I thought all BArkies were full convex?

 

[DRMUDD]

The NorthStar is not hollowground. They have a convex edge. You'll ruin that beautiful edge is you sharpen it normally.

 

[Orion]

Yes, it should be convex.

kgriggs, if you want something with a tad more handle and a tad more blade with the same style then you should look into the newly released Aurora.

http://www.dlttradingcompany.com/pr...=3318&osCsid=97c2d404931cee17921f0843e0081c6f

You may even find the handle contour to be better on the Aurora.

Peace-
Cam

 

[Cutshaw]

Mike Stewart truly does an amazing job with those convex edges; easily the sharpest knives I've ever owned.

I like the sound of the Aurora for the very same grip reasons you cite.

(For those curious, here is a Northstar picture.)

 

[rev_jch]

kgriggs8,
the grind is actually a full convex (not hollow).

Ive had one myself now for a while and it actually has performed really well as it is. Have you actually used it yet (not a few cuts, but really tried it out)?


You may want to try the aurora? It is a longer handled (and slightly longer bladed) verison of the northstar. I personally have medium sized hands and although the handle is just a touch too short. After using it, I changed my mind. It really performed well. I took it on packing trip and it did everything well (fuzz sticks, whittling, general cutting, etc. etc. etc.).

I would encourage you (if you havent yet) to really give it a try out before you decide if you like it or not (as is).

 

[Thomas Linton]

Handle,
This is where I have some issues. The handle is a little too short for even my medium sized hands. The G-10 is polish glass smooth which makes it as slick as if it were made of actual glass. The base of the grip flares out and forces your hand towards the blade. This makes it a little scary since there is no gaurd at all and the handle is smooth.

The G-10 one I got was the same. I removed the rear handle swell and the problem went away. The "Stag Bone" model I got did not have the rear swell.

Suggested improvments:
Add a inch to the handle, it would make all the difference in the world to feeling like you can control this knife. .... Have a swell in the middle or top of the handle instead of at the base.

Aurora

Why are there sharp corners on the handle at all?

Dunno. I sanded them off when I removed the rear swell. Took ten minutes. Much more comfortable to me without the edges.

The good news is, I think most of these things can be modified yourself.

Yup. :thumbup:

Might as well thin out the blade a bit as well. Does it need to be so thick really?

Designed to be batonned through hardwood. "Bushcraft" knife. The full width convexing means it cuts like a thinner blade.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The NorthStar is not hollowground. They have a convex edge. You'll ruin that beautiful edge is you sharpen it normally.

Lots of makers/manufacturers sharpen convex ground blades with v-bevels such as Fallkniven and Ed Fowler. You can in fact increase the cutting ability of a convex ground knife by applying a v-bevel which is more acute than the existing apex bevel of the convex grind. That blade is really narrow for its thickness and thus would have a low mechanical advantage.

Designed to be batonned through hardwood.

This doesn't require a 3/16" thick knife, you can do that with a 1/16" thick knife.

The full width convexing means it cuts like a thinner blade.

No it doesn't. Take a full flat grind knife like a A. G. Russell Deerhunter in 1/16" thick stock. Do you really think that adding a whole bunch of steel to the blade and increasing the cross section is going to make it cut better? If this were true then obviously it would continue to increase with more steel applied which makes it obvious the proposition false. An examination of soft vs hard wood axe profile whould shed some light on the nature of convex vs hollow grinds. The convex ground ones are used when you don't actually need cutting ability because the wood is so soft.

-Cliff

 

[kgriggs8]

I am learning lots of new stuff. I wasn't sure on the grind so I took a guess. I thought I had heard it was hollow but it looks like I was wrong. It almost looks flat ground to me.

I still haven't used it because I am not sure if I am going to keep it or sell it. Now that the Aurora has peaked my interest, I am even more unsure. I want to mod the handle so bad to see how much it helps the overall feeling of the knife but I don't want to ruin the value only to find that I still don't like it and I just trashed a $100 knife for no good reason. That Aurora sounds like what I want without the work. Maybe this Northstar could be a nice X-mas gift for one of my brothers and I could get the Aurora.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The convex ground knives commonly praised for cutting ability are always very close to flat ground. This is simply because the curvature of a grind measures how fast the angle increases, thus a knife with a very convex grind would taper to a very obtuse edge, i.e., a splitting axe.

-Cliff

 

[Orion]

I don't know a whole lot about edge geometry and I always trust what Cliff has to say. What I can say is this...

Bark River knives are the sharpest knives I have ever seen and slice and chop better than any others I have ever cut with.
I haven't had to resharpen one yet, but when I do I will let y'all know what kind of task it was.

Peace-
Cam

 

[rev_jch]

Cliff, you are wrong. A flat ground blade is not the same as a convex edge. They are not even close. And a 1/16" blade may be able to baton, but chances are it will not last. And it does not take much of a bad angle (during batoning) to destroy the blade. A 3/16" blade will hold up much better at batoning. And just to let you know, the northstar blade slices very well.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

A flat ground blade is not the same as a convex edge.

Don't recall where I said they were since one term describes the primary grind and another the edge bevel so obviously they are not the same. In the above both knives I referenced from Fallkniven and Fowler have full convex primary grinds, they then sharpen these knives with v-ground edge bevels. Fallkniven used to run flat ground primary grinds but changed to convex some years back.You really think it is sensible to say Fowler "ruins" his own knives by the sharpening he illustrates in his knifemaking video.

And a 1/16" blade may be able to baton, but chances are it will not last.

I have used such blades to split thousands of pieces of wood. Have you actually broken a number of them or are you just repeating some propoganda from someone trying to sell you the idea that you need a 3/16" blade. I have no doubt that you could break a short 1/16" blade by batoning if you wanted to but based on what I have seen it would not take much skill/experience to prevent it.

A 3/16" blade will hold up much better at batoning.

The only reason you need that level of thickness in a blade for splitting is to prevent the entire blade from taking a permanent set. This is more of a concern for longer blades because they can be used on very large wood which has multiple very thick knots which means you can't avoid having to chisel cut one of them. When the blade gets longer it is easier to bend under a given load because the torque is greater. Thus if you really needed 3/16" in that short of blade the thickness required for a long blade like a golok for the same work would be truely massive.

Of course a 3/16" blade will be less likely to bind and thus on some woods will be more efficient. The thicker blade stock also means you can be a lot more sloppy and do a lot more prying. With really thick blades you can use a lot of leverage to split woods which makes it easier to work with knotty woods because you can split the wood around the knots and then leverage it apart. This is often easier than trying to chisel cut through the knot directly. Of course you can use a wooden wedge to do this and short blades are difficult to use for prying because you don't have much leverage.

And just to let you know, the northstar blade slices very well.

As long as the material isn't deep binding then the cutting ability will be mainly geometrically dependent on the edge angle so even fairly thick blades can cut well on some materials if they taper to a fine edge. Carving wood is an example of such a material which is primarily sensitive to edge angle. However not all materials are so characterized, cardboard, carrots, thick ropes, etc., will all show the influence of the primary grind which is why knives designed to cut such materials well are very thin. Such knives are also much easier to maintain the cutting profile because the very thin primary grind means the edge cross section is very stable without having to grind the primary.

Cam, what you are seeing is mainly due to edge being very acute, you can achieve that with a flat grind, the Deerhunter, Calypso Jr. or custom from Phil Wilson are so ground and all on thinner stock. Many production knives come with edges of > 0.025" thick and > 20 degrees per side and if you compare these to knives which have edges of < 0.010" and < 15 degrees it is night/day.

-Cliff

 

[Piney]

This is ludicrous. How can you write a review on a knife you’ve never used?

 

[Orion]

He wrote a review of the actual knife itself, not the performance of the knife. He stated that in his review. There are different kinds of reviews.

Peace-
Cam

 

[Thomas Linton]

This is ludicrous. How can you write a review on a knife you’ve never used?

Dunno. Cliff?

 

[Thomas Linton]

Lots of makers/manufacturers sharpen convex ground blades with v-bevels such as Fallkniven and Ed Fowler. You can in fact increase the cutting ability of a convex ground knife by applying a v-bevel which is more acute than the existing apex bevel of the convex grind.

And so? This maker elected to do what he did, and evryone who has actually tried one and reported here and elsewhere says it cuts great -- even the Brits who were put out at the handle and sheath.

That blade is really narrow for its thickness and thus would have a low mechanical advantage.

Would you be so kind as to explain what this means to you?

This doesn't require a 3/16" thick knife, you can do that with a 1/16" thick knife.

Yes, you can. I have. I chose a greater margin of error.

No it doesn't. Take a full flat grind knife like a A. G. Russell Deerhunter in 1/16" thick stock. Do you really think that adding a whole bunch of steel to the blade and increasing the cross section is going to make it cut better? If this were true then obviously it would continue to increase with more steel applied which makes it obvious the proposition false. An examination of soft vs hard wood axe profile whould shed some light on the nature of convex vs hollow grinds. The convex ground ones are used when you don't actually need cutting ability because the wood is so soft.-Cliff

Point taken. I can't compare this knife to all other knives cutting all other materials, and you have often made the valid point that different confirgurations work differently on different materials. It cuts just fine in my experience on what I use it on: wood; meat and veggies; rope. For example, never tried it on thick cardboard.

But, Cliff, I never claimed a linear increase in cutting ability with thickness. That's a strawman.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

And so?

And so it would be absurd to claim that is the only way and that anything else "ruins" the knife.

Would you be so kind as to explain what this means to you?

It isn't my defination, it simply means the ability to provide productive force. A lever is an example of mechanical advantage because the force which is required is effected by the length of the lever. For a knife the aspect is the angle and this is well approximated by thickness/width. The higher this angle the more force it takes to drive the knife through something because you have to push the material apart more to allow the knife to pass through.

This isn't the only consideration, but it is a major one which is why a narrow and thick blade has a significant cutting mechanical disadvantge compared to a wider thinner one. Now it could of course be true that this drawback isn't critical for a given user. For example in large brush blades I prefer about a 1/4" spine because I want the strength for various prying work. Similar I have some small blades like the Howling Rat which are a fairly abrupt wedge shape compared to something like the South Fork which has a very high cutting mechanical advantage. The Howling Rat doesn't in general cut as well but has a wider scope of work, it makes a better all around utility tool.

I also have blades which I guage as more for survival/emergency which I leave much thicker in edge cross section to handle more loads from either myself in an emergency or just a novice user. I also have some cutting knives which are narrow and thick (Boye does a lot of grinds like that) but cut relatively well as they are meant mainly for shallow cutting and the thick spine is a nice ergonomic aid. Take a Boye Hunter and a Deerhunter to ropes and the both work really well, carve woods, slice meats, etc. . But then try some vegetable cutting, cardboard, slice through joints, do precision lathe splitting, etc., and the mechanical advantage issue becomes obvious fast.

I chose a greater margin of error.

That's fine, but this isn't the whole of what is stated which is 1/16" knives won't last and will break implying that it is impossible to use them for such work.

-Cliff