Barong -- why so small?

T

Twindog

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2004
Messages
4,097
I like the looks of the new Barong. Great steel, great lines, great grind. It just looks incredibly useful with its khukri-like downturned lines and leverage. But the Barong seems too small for that kind of design. The blade is only 4 inches long, and of that only 3 inches are actual edge.

I haven't used it, so maybe I'm missing something. But this design seems to cry out for a bigger blade -- maybe 6 inches. Even 7. That's on the big side for folders, but I don't see much advantage from this design with a smaller blade.

It's like making a 2-inch machete. Cute, but not all that functional.

The new Sypderco Khukuri is even worse.

Why such small blades on a big-blade design?

Here's the link: http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/list.php?filter=new
 
Quite possibly because there are so few places one can carry a folding knife that size legally (as far as why so small). Why make large chopping knives into small folding knives? Beats me. Overall, I find very little appealing in the ethnic series. I guess I'm too American. ;)
 
In the NW rainforest, where I live, it's nice to walk up small streams and rivers and sometimes go cross-country. Carrying a machete or khukri is usually too much weight and too obtrusive if I run into a fellow hiker. You can stroll through old-growth like walking in the park, but with all the logging, it can be difficult to get through the dense brush. Sometimes the salmonberries and thimbleberries are so think I need my Military to make my way. The Military is a wonderful EDC, but a little light for chopping small branches.

A 6-inch folding chopper, while certainly not as useful as the full-sized knife, would do the trick. And it would be easy to slide into a back pocket without a lot of extra weight or the possibility to worry others who don't know I'm totally harmless.

I tend to like the ethic series because the designs can be so useful for certain tasks -- but usually they are not great for EDC.

I don't see a large (or current) Barong as an EDC, but as a specialty knife for situations when a larger knife is useful but a full-sized machete or khukri would be a little over the top.
 
I think the point is more that it's something different from your average knife design, not that it's intended for chopping brush in the outback.

The Rock Salt is one of the best light weight choppers I've ever seen (maybe a little too light), if that's what you're looking for I'd recommend checking it out.
 
+1 for the Rock Salt. a wonderful woods knife! Thanks Ed & Spyderco!
regards,R.Taylor
 
Your probably right, Joshua. Spyderco says the Barong was designed to control vegetation, which is how I see it, and for self-defense. Those uses are dependent on a the knife being a certain size. If Spyderco wants to downsize it, I'd like to see what new functional use it is meant for. A folder can be a compromise for easier carry, but it can't be such a compromise that the point of the design is lost. Form should follow function. If knives are going to be designed for form, not function, we may as well start collecting garden gnomes.
 
I myself was hoping and praying as I clicked on the link when I first saw these designs that these would be the first 5-inch (or thereabouts) folders in the Spyderco line. Still keeping my fingers crossed. :D
 
I suppose the design has more merit if you look at it as trying to fit a design within certain limitations. If you want a folder for chopping, but can't carry anything longer than 4", then the Barong might be a good choice (though I'd expect a little more heft in the balde). You can see how the handle would lend itself to chopping more than most knives.
Really the CS Rajah II is probably the best you'll ever find for a folding chopper, but that's pretty much all it does.
 
Because they're folding knives and as such can only get so large before becoming parodies of the concept and losing almost all function and ergonomics of use to size.
 
I don't think the limitations of the design would be met for at least another inch of blade or so, giving it a four-inch cutting edge.

Spyderco knows how to make a knife functional and ergonomic better than anyone else in the industry, in my opinion.
 
The Barong and Khukuri are interpretations of (and tributes to) the originals in a folder format. They are not meant to perform the same tasks as their large namesakes.

They are not choppers. They are top quality production folders with unique (and practical) designs. They need to be held, and used, to be fully appreciated. Mine have hardly left my pockets since I got them.
 
catamount123 said:
The Barong and Khukuri are interpretations of (and tributes to) the originals in a folder format. They are not meant to perform the same tasks as their large namesakes.

They are not choppers. They are top quality production folders with unique (and practical) designs. They need to be held, and used, to be fully appreciated. Mine have hardly left my pockets since I got them.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't argue that they are high-quality production folders, but if you are correct that they are not meant to perform the same tasks as their namesakes, what are they meant to do?

If they need to be held and used to be appreciated, then it would be nice if Spyderco clued us in.

And why is the edge only 75 percent of the blade?

If this knife were an inch or two longer and the edge extended, I'd buy it in a second. The design just seems to cry out for that added size.
 
I also do not understand the Barong and the Khukri.

I don't want a blade with a 4 inch blade that has 1 inch of unusable tang sticking out.

As of late not a whole lot has appealed to me from Spyderco. I'm gonna have to try out some Kershaw knives and something from Cold Steel or a fixed blade or two.
 
what are they meant to do?
Click to expand...

I would assume they are meant to do what all Spyderco knives do; cut effectively. Which they succeed at. Stepping back to look at the two knives outside of the ethnic design cues, the Barong has a large leaf-shaped blade which is an excellent choice for general cutting and has been seen before from Spyderco. The Khukuri has a negative blade angle that puts it closer to the curve of the hawkbill and the inherent utility of that design. There are certain self-defense applications of each blade that have been recognized by other but I generally am not interested in those aspects so I can't comment on that.

I don't want a blade with a 4 inch blade that has 1 inch of unusable tang sticking out.
Click to expand...

But some of us do. Although I will have to disagree about the "unusable" tang; it allows more grip positions and has a small added safety factor in closing the knife. :)

Here's some of the designer's reasons for the tang size:

Link

Practically every knife that I design has an index finger groove at the front of the handle/back of the blade. Most of the time the design will dictate whether or not I might be prone to putting my middle finger in this index finger groove with my index finger on top of the blade. If that be the case I will make that area larger or smaller depending on the potential of use of that grip.

The Barong would have benefited from being ground further back and the prototype was ground with a longer edge. The only revision on the third prototype was to angle the plunge grind. The problem was that they started the grind from the same place as the perpendicular grind of the third proto.

Most of my knives have multiple grip positions. If you stay behind the index finger groove with your grip you will have and effective blade length well beyond the legal measurement of tip to the handle. This optimizes the reach of the blade for what will fit into the handle. I have found that I'm not sacrificing much edge for having three comfortable grip positions. That is the way I use a knife and I design to my effective long term and safe use.
Click to expand...

Link #2

I have a Barong in hand. The overall blade length is 3 15/16, the cutting edge is 3 3/16. I would have liked the grind to have been taken back another 1/8 of an inch but the angled plunge looks good and really doesn't sacrifice much cutting edge. I use this size of knife choked up for many tasks and if the plunge were taken back much more the index finger of larger hands would be very close to the start of the plunge grind.
Click to expand...

Twindog, this may be even more useful for those hikes than just a knife. I quit carrying a folder and went out only with a fixed blade and one of these after I saw how well they worked: Leatherman Pruners
 
Thanks for those links, Spoon. I hadn't seen Ed's reasoning for this design, although I still don't follow his reasoning. He says that he would have liked the edge to run a little longer, but the shorter edge wasn't much of a sacrifice for appearance and for the ability to choke up. His knife had a 3 3/16 edge. The specs on the Spyderco site show the edge got even smaller: It's now down to 3 inches even.

I don't see that knife as one I'd want to choke up on, but if I did, I'd want the non-edge blade to be more choil shaped to prevent slippage to the actual edge.

It's a beautiful design and I'm sure the quality is excellent, but it just looks to me like a big knife trapped in a small body.

Thanks for the Leatherman pruner idea. I do carry professional pruners many times. The Leatherman has the advantage of being a multitool, as well, but I already carry the Skeletool.
 
Spoonrobot,

Yeah I had seen that over on the Spyderco Forums. Problem is that having a 4" blade makes it illegal for some folks and since it only has 3" of cutting edge that sorta sucks. However....in the grand scheme of things....none of this knife stuff matters anyway. ;)

I just will not be dropping $150 on that knife. That's all. Heck, if someone gave me one I would never use it. To each his own I guess...
 
I like the Spidy barong and khuk shapes but i find them to small for me. That being said, its not stopping me from eventually buying them, as i quite like the blade shape/style , but it would be nice to see them ALSO OFFERED with much bigger blades/handles. I wouldn't hesitate to EDC in a sheath, a 8" folding barong or khuk style blade. I was really looking forward to the Barong, then when i held it in the store I couldn't believe how tiny it was. Its key chain sized to me. YMMV. Pretty much any blade under 5" is a keyfob for me. Again, YMMV. I guess i was just expecting a bigger knife, then when i got to first handle it it was disappointing. Still a beautiful knife though.......

In the meantime I'm going to pick up the CS Rajah to fill the gap. Thats my interpretation of what a pocket knife should be. Growing up i started out with a large fixed blade and a machete, and then a massive bowie, so to me everything else is really tiny.


Spyderco says the Barong was designed to control vegetation,

I would like to hear what "controlling vegetation" means to everyone. To me it means clearing massive amounts of underbrush, something a 3" blade is not going to do, unless you have years to do the task.........YMMV

when i control vegetation, i do so with speed and cover large 1/4 acre regions......
 
Last edited:
"A pronounced spine-cusp and choil indent give great control over the wide and stable blade, designed originally for controlling vegetation and personal safety."

This was taken directly from spyderco's online catalog.

I interpret this as meaning that the barong blade style was originally designed to clear vegetation. I don't think it means that the spyderco barong was meant to do so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top