Batoning query.

[RemyKaze]

So there is a pretty divided line between those who think batoning with a knife is safer and burns less energy, and those who think that it is simply people using the wrong tool for the job, making it less than efficient.

I know many people will vote for an axe over a knife. So my question is this: If you use a boy's axe size or smaller, down to a hatchet, is it harmful to baton with it and use it as a wedge if the need arose? What are the best options for splitting larger pieces of wood with a small axe/hatchet, and what makes it more effective than using a knife? If using it as a wedge with a baton is acceptable, is a strong piece of some durable material needed as a buffer on the haft where you're striking with the baton?

My apologies if the subject has been discussed already. I'm used to using a chopper, and getting wood no bigger than 5 inches thick. I've recently put a new handle on a boy's axe to test it out for camping, so I'll know whether I want to put the money into a Wetterlings or Gransfors Bruks. However during chopping, I noticed that it has quite a lot less splitting power(of course), and was curious as to how people who pack light for hiking and camping get around the issue of splitting larger wood. Thanks in advance for the input.:thumbup:

 

[smokeylovesmolly]

use the big knife... i've had experience with larger axes and larger knives (not smaller axes/hawks tho) and the big knife, for me, works better. i really don't believe its bad to batten with a small hatchet if the situation arose. its metal vs wood..

 

[smokeylovesmolly]

my experience is just limited to processing wood in my backyard tho... i don't know what your application would be

 

[A.P.F.]

I am still trying to figure out why anyone would want to batton an axe or a hatchet.

OK, fine. Use the small axe or hatchet to cut yourself some hardwood wedges, start the split with the axe and then use the axe as a hammer to drive the wedge into the log. I have easily split 8" logs using the technique.

 

[RemyKaze]

my experience is just limited to processing wood in my backyard tho... i don't know what your application would be

For a large tool? Probably just firewood if needed. Shelters can be made with small knives. No one wants to pack a heavy axe. The boy's axe I have weighs more than my Junglas. I don't want to downgrade to a hatchet if I have to replace the Junglas for hardwoods, unless I can baton through things if needed. However it seems kinda impractical to bang on the handle of an axe or hatchet. Chopper for axe seems like a good tradeoff in terms of hardwoods, but not so much for smaller.

Then again, I've never had a Wetterlings or GB and apparently they cut a whole lot better. It's a completely different animal trying to use an axe in place of something I'm more comfortable with, but I'm willing to learn.


Also when they axe head gets too deep I'd have a hell of a time trying to hit anything but the handle. The reason I mention any of this is that the last time I went out, I had a fallen tree sitting there right beside camp, reading for the taking, but I had to take out some pretty big sections and then split them to make them more fuel-efficient.

 

[RemyKaze]

I am still trying to figure out why anyone would want to batton an axe or a hatchet.

First, I'm new to doing anything more than processing firewood with an axe. Second, I've always used a larger axe, which worked well but is too heavy to tote around hiking. Using a smaller axe or hatchet demands much more work for the same result, versus both an axe and a chopper being batoned through the wood. It just doesn't have the heft for it. If you'll reread my post, you'll see that I ask how people get around that lack of power.

 

[RemyKaze]

OK, fine. Use the small axe or hatchet to cut yourself some hardwood wedges, start the split with the axe and then use the axe as a hammer to drive the wedge into the log. I have easily split 8" logs using the technique.

That is some very useful information. As someone who isn't used to using smaller axes whatsoever, I honestly might never have thought of that. I appreciate the input.:thumbup:

 

[A.P.F.]

I'll clarify. An axe or a hatchet, by it's design profile is designed to cut wood, such as limbing or felling a tree. Because of it's acute blade profile, when used for splitting, an axe or hatchet will tend to bind in the wood. The tool of choice for splitting is known as a Splitting Maul as shown below.

You will notice the more obtuse angle on the blade, which forces the wood apart readily and will not tend to bind as readily. Now, if you are horse or jeep camping, a maul is a handy accessory, but not so much if you are packing on your person, for obvious reasons. In a back-pack situation, a good 7" to 9" knife will do a good job of splitting via a batton and will do a pretty fair job of cutting as well. As with all tools, go for as good as you can afford.

 

[RemyKaze]

So if weight is an issue it really just comes down to preference. Nice to know. I'll probably just stick with a large knife, 4" and a SAK then. Thanks again.

 

[A.P.F.]

So if weight is an issue it really just comes down to preference. Nice to know. I'll probably just stick with a large knife, 4" and a SAK then. Thanks again.

My pleasure. Truth be known, one of the foremost woodsmen there ever was, Horace Keppheart, used a 4"-5" knife. Good choice. :thumbup:

 

[Dr Heelhook]

Newsflash: You can baton with an axe! That way you'll use the right tool for the job and burn less energy.

 

[bomber258]

I use a large knife to baton since I am older and my hand strength and reflexes are not what they were when I was a powerhouse.
I know that using a blade I can get closer to the wood and therefore NOT swing the axe/hawk toward my hand.
If this makes sense to y'all,then good.
If not - well its still my way and THE safest way for me.
I fear doing damage to myself ,especially in a woods scenerio.
The knife gives me better control,and if I have a axe/hawk - then its for the stuff that I can stand back and hit.
btw,using a wedge is still very viable with a knife for a baton.

 

[RemyKaze]

Newsflash: You can baton with an axe! That way you'll use the right tool for the job and burn less energy.

Not sure what sort of newsflash that is. Maybe Fox News? Hiking out with a heavy full size axe is not the smartest move. My apologies if I misunderstood, but I'm looking for lightweight.

 

[Doug S]

I don't know anything about it really, but I just can't figure out how using a tool to split wood, that was never designed to split wood (especially a folding knife), is better for the job, than using a tool, that was designed for the task. Maybe it's because I'm just not buying the idea that so many of us are deep woods, ultralight woodsman that half no better choice than abusing our knives...or for that matter, that Fox news is somehow more bias that all of the other news source. Now, I would buy the idea that many of us spend too much time getting our ideas from watching liberal news shows, and reading the Internet, though (sorry, I just couldn't resist after reading the silly comment above).

No offense to the serious woodsman out there...I'm sure a few actually do exist.

 

[RemyKaze]

I don't know anything about it really, but I just can't figure out how using a tool to split wood, that was never designed to split wood (especially a folding knife), is better for the job, than using a tool, that was designed for the task. Maybe it's because I'm just not buying the idea that so many of us are deep woods, ultralight woodsman that half no better choice than abusing our knives...or for that matter, that Fox news is somehow more bias that all of the other news source. Now, I would buy the idea that many of us spend too much time getting our ideas from watching liberal news shows, and reading the Internet, though (sorry, I just couldn't resist after reading the silly comment above).

No offense to the serious woodsman out there...I'm sure a few actually do exist.

I think that originally it was just about packing light. Now...I guess people are obsessed with it. Back in the day they didn't have huge, thick knives, so there wasn't a question. However, I still want to pack light, and 1-2 lbs compared to 5 or more does make a difference when there's lots of hiking involved. And I doubt many people do go out in the woods for extended periods like that. However, for myself as you can tell, an axe is slightly out of my comfort zone. I'm very used to knives, to handling them, etc. To me it's a drag carrying anything that will weigh me down much more simply because it's the traditional tool for the job. Tools evolve. However, I do want to switch my Junglas out for a smaller axe of similar weight, to see how it fits in.

I'm sorry, I picked Fox at random. You can fill that with any news station of your choice, they're all full of s**t.

 

[Bo T]

I have a very inexpensive (some would call it cheap) hatchet, hammer, prybar multitool. Chopping kindling is a little dangerous so I get a 16 oz hammer and pound this chinese multitool throught the wood. I wear eye protection just in case. But it has held together over the last couple of decades. If the back of your ax has been designed to pound with, then you should be able to pound on it (baton) to make cuts that might not be practical using a chopping motion. And the ax will be more durable in most cases meaning you can really pound on it if need be. The latest issue of Backwoodsman has a good article on the benefits of an ax. Google 'Old Jimbo', there is a lot written on his site about axes and hatchets. There is some good info on the ax and tomahawk forum, Personally, unless you have some heavy chopping to do I'd leave the ax behind.

 

[davek14]

If you hit an ax on the flat side you will deform the head in such a way that the head will come loose.

People baton 'cause it's fun. I think with smaller logs (2"-3") it's as or more efficient.

 

[Pristerognathus]

Batoning with a knife is much more survivaly.

 

[unit]

I think people expend a lot of bandwidth on this topic. There are almost always small twigs around that can be used along with various sized twigs and branches becoming progressively larger.

I would suggest that the real answer for a lot of people simply comes down to the choice of what they WANT to do. Sometimes I want to process a bigger log, so I carry larger tools. Most of the time (when I really NEED to make a fire), I could use practically any size knife to make the shavings I need (even if the wood is wet...just keep whittling to the dry stuff).

Perhaps there are areas where the only thing that exists are 5+ inch rounds that are soaked to within a few inches of the core...but around here trees grow and die with smaller branches that can be broken by hand and careful foraging will usually turn up dry material even on wet days. YMMV

 

[Doug S]

I think that originally it was just about packing light. Now...I guess people are obsessed with it. Back in the day they didn't have huge, thick knives, so there wasn't a question. However, I still want to pack light, and 1-2 lbs compared to 5 or more does make a difference when there's lots of hiking involved. And I doubt many people do go out in the woods for extended periods like that. However, for myself as you can tell, an axe is slightly out of my comfort zone. I'm very used to knives, to handling them, etc. To me it's a drag carrying anything that will weigh me down much more simply because it's the traditional tool for the job. Tools evolve. However, I do want to switch my Junglas out for a smaller axe of similar weight, to see how it fits in.

I'm sorry, I picked Fox at random. You can fill that with any news station of your choice, they're all full of s**t.

I can see how one would want the lightest, adn the least amount of gear when going into the woods. I hope you find (or have found) a suitable knife for your purposes.