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Batoning
- Thread starter abo4ster
- Start date
Quiet Bear,
I like to strike the spine with the baton,this places the force where you need it most.
In lashing the knife to the baton I would be concerned with either the lashing coming loose or placing too much stress on the tang risking breakage.
Allan
I like to strike the spine with the baton,this places the force where you need it most.
In lashing the knife to the baton I would be concerned with either the lashing coming loose or placing too much stress on the tang risking breakage.
Allan
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
What SA said. But since I learned (Why didn't I think of that?) to split wood by sawing half through and wailing it against a rock, I don't baton nearly as much.
MelancholyMutt
Doggy Style
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2002
- Messages
- 3,906
I think there is a technique where one opens a car top like opening a can by batoning a good strong knife across the roof of a car... I heard an anecdote where police responding to a car accident cut a motorist out of their car this way. True or not, I don't know.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
loki88 said:i use an ax and shrug thinking about someone using a knife as a chopping tool!
If the knife is big enough, oh say an 18" Himalayan Imports AK
, it will chop like the dickens. However, so we are all using the same language, "batoning" is not chopping. It is placing the blade against the work and driving it though by striking the spine of the knife with a club - the baton. I can't say I wail on it like Moine, but firm hits drive the blade in. What a single cut will not do, a series of cuts may accomplish.loki88...
I used my Firestone belt axe to baton my Busse SteelHeart!!!
It worked like a charm!!!
And the marks were worse on my hatchet than they are on my Busse!!! LOL!!!
However, if I don't have my belt axe, I now know that I can chop or split without it!
My only real concern is in the size of what I'm chopping... if there isn't enough blade sticking out on either side of the log being chopped... well, there won't be much surface to hammer on... so I either pick smaller stuff... or is there a simple solution that I'm unaware of??? (besides a chain saw or an axe! LOL!!!)
I used my Firestone belt axe to baton my Busse SteelHeart!!!
It worked like a charm!!!
And the marks were worse on my hatchet than they are on my Busse!!! LOL!!!
However, if I don't have my belt axe, I now know that I can chop or split without it!
My only real concern is in the size of what I'm chopping... if there isn't enough blade sticking out on either side of the log being chopped... well, there won't be much surface to hammer on... so I either pick smaller stuff... or is there a simple solution that I'm unaware of??? (besides a chain saw or an axe! LOL!!!)
Which method works better?
It depends on a few factors... in particular:
Type of knife? You can safely baton the spine of a folder (the spine of the blade, not the handle)--where all the impact will hit the blade, itself, but cannot safely use a folder lashed to baton, where the impact on the blade/handle juncture should instantly snap your knife blade right off the handle. A fixed blade gives you more options.
Size of knife? A knife as small as 3 inches or so can work acceptably when batonned. You need a bit more knife length, like four or five inches of blade, to make a reasonable pole-axe.
Kind of knife spine? A false-edged knife spine, or a double edged knife, is strongly sub-optimal for hitting with a baton. Too much force will go into cutting into the baton with the false edge, and not enough will go into cutting deeper into the targeted wood.
Kind of handle? For lashing a knife to a club for use as a pole-axe, you need a handle that is at least somewhat broad from the "spine" side to the "edge" side, and at least somewhat slender from the right side to the left side; you need this in order for your knife to not twist. You also need the handle material to be hard, like bare metal or micarta. If you are using a knife with a rounded or squarish handle covered with a rubber grip, then you'd probably best stick to batonning the spine of the knife.
Toughness of the knife? The impact generated by usage as a pole-arm is much greater than the impact generated by beating the spine with a baton. (On the other hand, the risk of accidental heavy lateral forces and twisting are higher with beating the spine with a baton.) I wouldn't use a stainless steel knife as a pole-axe. (Stainless steels tend to be more brittle than carbon steels--though, of course, a carbon steel blade still needs the right heat treatment to be as tough as possible.) Also, I would only try using a full-tang knife as a pole-axe.
How much chopping are you going to do? If you are just going to chop through one branch, then you'd be better off batoning, because you won't have to spend additional time finding/creating/modifying a suitable club to attach a branch to, then carefully lashing the knife onto it. Finding a decent pole, fashioning it suitably for your purposes, and lashing a knife to it can easily take 10-15 minutes. You can baton through one or two little brinches faster than that.
But when it comes to sheer chopping power... no contest; the pole-axe method makes for several times more powerful chopping than the baton-the-spine, at least. It will be much more powerful than any hatchet, too. Done right, it can even be considerably more powerful than a full-sized axe.
As for control: It takes a bit of getting used to, as does chopping with an axe... But once you are used to it, control and precision is not a significant issue. Certainly, if you were to compare the overall efficiency of:
(A) pole axe, with much more power but some control loss;
versus
(B) batonned knife, with better control but much less power;
the pole-axe would be far more efficient to use, overall.
By the way, here is a thread with tests of increased power with a pole-axe versus chopping with a hand-held knife (sorry, pole-axe versus baton was not part of the testing). The thread also gives details about how to lash a knife to a baton.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209202
--Mike
It depends on a few factors... in particular:
Type of knife? You can safely baton the spine of a folder (the spine of the blade, not the handle)--where all the impact will hit the blade, itself, but cannot safely use a folder lashed to baton, where the impact on the blade/handle juncture should instantly snap your knife blade right off the handle. A fixed blade gives you more options.
Size of knife? A knife as small as 3 inches or so can work acceptably when batonned. You need a bit more knife length, like four or five inches of blade, to make a reasonable pole-axe.
Kind of knife spine? A false-edged knife spine, or a double edged knife, is strongly sub-optimal for hitting with a baton. Too much force will go into cutting into the baton with the false edge, and not enough will go into cutting deeper into the targeted wood.
Kind of handle? For lashing a knife to a club for use as a pole-axe, you need a handle that is at least somewhat broad from the "spine" side to the "edge" side, and at least somewhat slender from the right side to the left side; you need this in order for your knife to not twist. You also need the handle material to be hard, like bare metal or micarta. If you are using a knife with a rounded or squarish handle covered with a rubber grip, then you'd probably best stick to batonning the spine of the knife.
Toughness of the knife? The impact generated by usage as a pole-arm is much greater than the impact generated by beating the spine with a baton. (On the other hand, the risk of accidental heavy lateral forces and twisting are higher with beating the spine with a baton.) I wouldn't use a stainless steel knife as a pole-axe. (Stainless steels tend to be more brittle than carbon steels--though, of course, a carbon steel blade still needs the right heat treatment to be as tough as possible.) Also, I would only try using a full-tang knife as a pole-axe.
How much chopping are you going to do? If you are just going to chop through one branch, then you'd be better off batoning, because you won't have to spend additional time finding/creating/modifying a suitable club to attach a branch to, then carefully lashing the knife onto it. Finding a decent pole, fashioning it suitably for your purposes, and lashing a knife to it can easily take 10-15 minutes. You can baton through one or two little brinches faster than that.
But when it comes to sheer chopping power... no contest; the pole-axe method makes for several times more powerful chopping than the baton-the-spine, at least. It will be much more powerful than any hatchet, too. Done right, it can even be considerably more powerful than a full-sized axe.
As for control: It takes a bit of getting used to, as does chopping with an axe... But once you are used to it, control and precision is not a significant issue. Certainly, if you were to compare the overall efficiency of:
(A) pole axe, with much more power but some control loss;
versus
(B) batonned knife, with better control but much less power;
the pole-axe would be far more efficient to use, overall.
By the way, here is a thread with tests of increased power with a pole-axe versus chopping with a hand-held knife (sorry, pole-axe versus baton was not part of the testing). The thread also gives details about how to lash a knife to a baton.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209202
--Mike
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 2,373
Has anyone here ever used a Cold Steel Bushman lashed to a short baton as an improvised machete?
I've been considering the large bushman as an alternative "always on the pack" knife in Brazil but I haven't bought one yet. I was very impressed with the mini-bushman I picked up for my daughter and I want the original now. It seems like a versatile blade if it can do the job of a machete in a pinch. Mac
I've been considering the large bushman as an alternative "always on the pack" knife in Brazil but I haven't bought one yet. I was very impressed with the mini-bushman I picked up for my daughter and I want the original now. It seems like a versatile blade if it can do the job of a machete in a pinch. Mac