Batonning with small blades .

[Kevin the grey]

I have a becker necker I want to put through its paces as well as myself . Are there tricks and techniques to batonning firewood into kindling or larger logs into firewood ? How about splitting a seven inch diameter hardwood tree trunk into halves and quarters ? What are the practical limits to batonning with a small blade ?

 

[North61]

Don't bite off too much, the necker is no axe. Try small splits from the edges and try practicing splitting wedges off the sides of the log. This gets easy with practice.

When yo have three good wedges start a crack with the Becker remove it while you still can and use the wedges to finish. If you attempt to baton a big peice of wood with a little knife it is possible to trap your knife.

You can split really big wood with wedges but some big logs still defeat me if they are not straight grained and green.

I have a Becker and it was made a lot better by adding some thin slaps for handles. A bit short but a cute little fella and a good little game knife.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Are there tricks and techniques to batonning firewood into kindling or larger logs into firewood ?

It isn't tricks as much as understanding that you are trying to split the wood and not cut it and thus you have to chose splitting points which make this possible. If the grain is straight and clear it doesn't matter much and all you have to do is go either directly perpendicular or parallel to the grain, but when the grain turns, or knots, or worse yet, forks, then it starts to be difficult.

The main thing to avoid is trying to force a split perpendicular to a knot because the knot will act just like a nail and hold the wood together. If there are multiple knots then you either have to start a split inbetween them, or cleave one of the knots directly, which one depends on how the other knots run and the ability to cut through the knot itself.

There are some woods that simply won't be split easily even with steel wedges and a maul, and it doesn't need to be very big either, 8-12" is easily large enough to be a lot of problems if the wood is bad and it can often be more productive to see if there isn't easier wood to split from both a time and effort point of view.

How about splitting a seven inch diameter hardwood tree trunk into halves and quarters ?

Generally it is far easier to make the secondary splits, the primary one is the deal breaker. It is also far easier to split smaller (shorter) rounds, so if you have a saw and the wood looks bad then cut the rounds really short. Even though it can run more sawing time you will save a lot on the splitting time and really heavy splitting can be really physically demanding.

What are the practical limits to batonning with a small blade ?

None, it just takes more time and effort the less capable your tools. I have split wood by batoning with very thin edged (0.005") blades, you just have to go really light with the impacts. That is mainly a comparison type effort though, you would always be better off with wedges on problematic wood unless you can hit the knife really hard.

There are also a lot of differences in small knives, a 1/16" blade and a 3/16" blade have little in common method wise. You can hammer the point in a crack with the 3/16" blade and torque on it to split the wood, this won't be productive on a much thinner blade. The thinner blade won't actually split the wood at all by direct batoning as it doesn't have the cross section to induce a wedging action so it is vastly less effective.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

Thanks North61 , I will allow myself the use of wood wedges if I make them with the Becker . It is to test the knife and myself so tools made with the knife will be acceptable .

Cliff thanks for the sound advice . I may tackle an easier log to handle at first as you advise . My original idea was to split a trunk of thornwood . To make matters more problematic it can only be split seasoned as it is to be split into bow staves . This wood is incredibly heavy and tough . Throwing a one inch diameter by two foot piece for my dog to fetch smacks onto concrete with quite a report . Even though dry the ends have not split or become mishapen from the pounding .
I will leave that for when I am more experienced and start splitting some thin pieces of seasoned firewood . I will progress to larger pieces until difficulty arises and then I will make a wooden wedge .
I may take down a 4 inch poplar and attempt to split that evenly and perhaps make something with what I split .

B:T:W: .005 blade ? You are talking almost razor thin . I have broadheads that are .032 and they are none too thick . What kind of blade are we talking about ?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I may tackle an easier log to handle at first ...

Generally a good idea, the really hard to split wood uses the same methods basically, it is just much more difficult and takes a lot more time and force, it is easier and less frustrating if you don't have to double and triple wedge everything with a maul because you can concentrate on what works better and not be exausting yourself in the process.

I will leave that for when I am more experienced and start splitting some thin pieces of seasoned firewood . I will progress to larger pieces until difficulty arises and then I will make a wooden wedge .

You can learn a lot in a short period of time by really watching the wood, how the grain and knots and general curvature reacts to the split. Plus it seems less like work that way, to me anyway.

What kind of blade are we talking about ?

A custom from Phil Wilson, he basically full grinds the blades from the spine to the edge and sharpens back so the edge is ~0.005" thick, barely visible. They cut exceptionally well and are very easy to sharpen, I run the one I have at about 7/8 degrees per side. I would never recommend that edge profile in general for batoning, I would want about 0.030" personally behind the edge assuming a decent steel.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

At the present time I am almost sure the edge on the becker is much thicker than that . It is also a convex grind . I was told a convexed blade edge will minimise binding in wood . I will leave the convex edge as it is the same as my Kukuuri and will be my experience in sharpening and maintaining a convex edge . I was also given a knife made from a nicholson file which is similar though a little longer in blade . I hope for it to become my E:C: if it proves not to be too brittle . It supposedly has a rockwell of 61/62. I am looking forward to this and will start tomorrow with the firewood into kindling . The fresh poplar trunks are plentiful . There is even one that has seasoned all fall and winter .

 

[numberthree]

I've got a Becker Necker that I baton quite a bit. Mainly I use the necker and the baton to remove tree limbs etc... For firewood, I find that the Swiss Army Knife Saw Splitting Method (mentioned on this forum sometime in the last year) is far more efficient if one doesn't have a bigger chopper on hand. With that method one can get a fire large enough to start burning long stuff in half. I find that getting stereotypical 'firewood' uses a lot more energy than just laying poles into the fire and pushing them in as they burn....

The SAK method is as follows (if the originator of this idea happens by, they can probably explain it better than me): select a longish piece of wood of a diameter that you can reasonably saw halfway through with your SAK saw, saw halfway through about a foot or two from the end, find a rock and bang the piece of wood about a 3rd of the way from the cut to the end of the stick. A nice piece of firewood should pop off the log. Repeat as needed....

 

[Ebbtide]

While bolos, parangs & goloks are big knives, just as swords are really big knives, are they the type of big knives that were referred to in the initial post?

 

[22-rimfire]

The wedges that you all are talking about... are these the wedges that you see at the hardware store or are you making your own out of wood? For me it seems a lot easier to have a small hatchet (example fiskar brand) and between the knife and the hatchet, you should be able to split modest sized logs. The problem is that in the woods they don't come in nice lengths for splitting. You have to cut them first; better yet saw them into short pieces. After the fire gets going, I just use the big stuff and let it burn down...four to six foot lengths work well for this.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

[saw splitting]

..if the originator of this idea happens by

Thomas Linton was the first I noted propose that idea here, I don't know if he invented it or was taught it. It is pretty imaginative in any case.

The wedges that you all are talking about... are these the wedges that you see at the hardware store or are you making your own out of wood?

Generally make, with a chopping tool you can make them very fast, metal ones are way too heavy to carry, plastic ones work well though and are light and have lots of other uses as they float, are really visible, can be burned, etc. .

The problem is that in the woods they don't come in nice lengths for splitting.

On sticks/logs, with sturdy blades you can often just pry apart deadfall directly, on fresh wood once cut to length you just split the rounds, though you can't chop split them as readily with an axe unless they are saw cut, unless you don't mind slamming the axe into the ground anyway because you can't readily place two pointed sticks on each other and use the one on the bottom as a block.

-Cliff

 

[Temper]

Its surprising how well a quickly fashioned wedge will hold up. I have really beaten the snot out of them in twisty knotty hardwood and they have performed graeat. Just split a 1 inch length of the first log, quickly whittle a wedge shape and just make sure the edge is thin (about 1mm or less) this will ensure it gets into the crack you made with the knife. The angle from then on is not so critical, just make it wedged shape and whale on it with a baton.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Never having made a wedge it is easy for me to talk of making them . That having been said It is the becker and myself I am testing not my ability to go out and buy tools . I appreciate you are talking about what would be most convenient .Survival is rarely convenient . It has to be hacked out of a grizzlies butt at times ! L:O:L

 

[North61]

Never having made a wedge it is easy for me to talk of making them . That having been said It is the becker and myself I am testing not my ability to go out and buy tools . I appreciate you are talking about what would be most convenient .Survival is rarely convenient . It has to be hacked out of a grizzlies butt at times ! L:O:L

That's the spirit... I think we'd be all better served by spending more time in the woods practicing instead of working to buy stuff to think about going into the woods.

Or talking about it on the internet I guess.

Wish I could take my own advice.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Never having made a wedge it is easy for me to talk of making them .

It is just a triangle, the easiest way to make them with small knives is to carve them out of branches and use a bunch of small wedges than one large one. I don't know anyone that would actually carry metal/plastic ones unless you are planning on a lot of felling in which case they are used for directional falling. The only issue with wedges is the shape, how it works is just as dependent on how it is shaped as how a blade cuts depends on how it is ground. If the wedge is too thin it doesn't do anything to split the wood and if it is too thick it takes way too much force to drive through the wood. If you have a really nice cutting tool you can fashion ones with convex tapers pretty quickly and they work well. Spiral tapers are even better but these are not easy to make by hand, you can see that design on the GB wedge it works very well and has a very high penetration/wedging ratio.

-Cliff

 

[Ebbtide]

You also need a good baton, like this little guy
Note, one wedge was wedge shaped, the other a pointy stick.
The pointy stick worked almost as well.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Ebbtide thanks for the great photo . I hope you are not trying to convince us you are roughing it in the woods in these photos ? It looks like you brought a table with you ! L:O:L Just don,t try to convince us you made it with those wedges . L:O:L

 

[Temper]

Here are some wedges I made in about 4 seconds, as Ron Hood would say, "Not a thing of beauty, but it doesnt have to be"

The wood pictured is Cherry and was incredibly nasty to split, the wedges held up very well, even after being beat to death.

 

[Ebbtide]

Kevin, that's the BBQ
And I don't rough it...
I smoooooooooooth it

 

[Kevin the grey]

Kevin, that's the BBQ
And I don't rough it...
I smoooooooooooth it

So When is supper ? I actually started to think it was a forge . Now you got me thinking about B:B:Q: .
I,m going to have to baton some small game . L:O:L

 

[Thomas Linton]

[saw splitting]

Thomas Linton was the first I noted propose that idea here, I don't know if he invented it or was taught it. It is pretty imaginative in any case.
. . .

-Cliff

No credit due here. I first saw the method of splitting using a saw on one of the UK forums (BCUK or BB). I thought, "Of course! Why didn't I think of that?" I went out immediately and tried it out. It works!! Naturally, it works best on wood that would be easiest to split with more conventional means.