Battle Rat Bested by T-Bone

Blain

Blain

Gold Member
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
152
Ok, I just had to test my battle rat out on something hard.

Since I had T bone steaks for dinner, I decided to try to see how well my knife would cut the bone.

One slice cleaved half way through the bone, after working the blade in the groove I eventually cut the thick bone.

However, upon examining the blade I found mini grooves, like a mini serration.

IT HAD CHIPPED THE BLADE!


How could bone chip my mighty battle rat?

In rage I STRUCK the blade down with ALL my force, it sliced another part of the bone, broke and shattered the cutting board, and sliced through a part of the concrete floor....

The blade striking the concrete floor really did some damage. Now there were all sorts of little serrations, or chips, across the front part of the blade. Way too small to measure, but visible as distortions, and grooves, to the naked eye.


Now the front part of the blade has all shorts of mini chips in it. If anyone knows how I can upload the pics here I will do so for you to see and comment on.

My question is, can these be sharpened out? Or do I need to send my blade in for Swamp's warrenty policy?

I am not surprised the concrete did some damage to the blade, but bone???

Makes me upset.
 
Why not bone? It's an extremely hard material, which was engaged by a very tiny amount of steel with a lot of force behind it. If chopping wood will dull a knife, then chopping bone will do so much faster, and what is dulling if not edge deformation? A balance has to be struck, having an edge that is tough, but will also cut well enough to be justified in being called a knife. If your primary purpose for it is bone cutting, it will work, but I would suggest you steepen the angle on the edge bevel to give it more strength. It will not be much of a slicer at all after you've done this, but it will stand up to hard chops on hard materials better. If your uses will be general purpose, I'd keep the current edge bevel (I actually tend to thin mine a bit) and just deal with nicks as they come up.

No matter which way you go, I'd recommend against random concrete slamming just on principle---it's not that it's not covered by warranty, but you're the one who has to do without your knife as it's repaired/replaced.

As to the chips, yes they can be sharpened out, it may just take a little time. I would smooth them out with a honing job (so that there are not burrs on the sides of the edge) and not worry about it--if you grind down the edge all around it to completely eliminate any nicks, then you'll be removing/wasting a lot of steel. I have several knives that have very sharp edges with a few imperfections in them, and it doesn't effect performance really at all. If you'd rather the Swamp do the sharpening, I'd contact Eric after Blade next week to set it up.

Best of luck,
Warren

Edited to add: That was "best of luck" in the sharpening, not in contacting Eric. ;)
 
Isn't it Eric's wife who deals with the swamp rats?

Heck, I might as well just break the blade and get a totally new one than just have them resharpen it. Part of the blade is dented in now anyway.
 
Nope, Eric Isaacson is the primary public relations and customer service head at Swamp Rat Knife Works. Jennifer Busse, wife of Jerry Busse, runs the company.

Your call on the knife. I don't currently have anyplace to host the pictures, but if you want to take some shots and e-mail them to me at t1mpani@aol.com I'll take a look. I can forward them on to Eric if necessary. I'll tell you that purposefully breaking the blade is not what the warranty is about. Damage in use, even extremely hard use, is covered, as is what you're talking about here. Purposely putting it in a vice just to break it, or cutting it with a torch, is a different story. They'd probably go ahead and cover you (don't count on it), but that seems a clear-cut case of warranty abuse, and such a useless one to boot, seeing as how you're already covered.
 
Blain,

Let me see if I've got this right: You wanted to test your BR on something tough, when it didn't meet your expectations, you slammed it down in rage, it chipped some more, now you want to try and break it on purpose so you can have a new one?

I can understand why you would be upset, but swinging your blade in rage seems little over the top. As for breaking your blade to get a new one. That's kinda like getting a small ding in your car door and then driving your car into a telephone pole at sixty miles per hour so your insurance will replace the entire car. Sure, you can do it, but why? Send it back to the factory and they'll asses if it needs to be replaced or just sharpened. In any case, you'll end up with a blade that's pretty much as good as new. But to try and break your blade (that's gonna take some work) on purpose, IMHO, that just doesn't seem right to me.

BTW, I believe that it's Jerry Busse's wife, Jennifer, who runs the Swamp.
 
Blain said:
Isn't it Eric's wife who deals with the swamp rats?

Heck, I might as well just break the blade and get a totally new one than just have them resharpen it. Part of the blade is dented in now anyway.
Click to expand...


this is where the "if it breaks, we'll replace it. if you break it - you broke it" part of the policy may come into play. the main example thats normally given is, if you bash your knice on concrete, and it breaks, they'll replace it. but if you take a hacksaw to it - there is no reason why they should cover that in the warranty.

my automatic question to your blade "chipping out" is - are they actually chips? or are they dents. there's 2 ways to dent a blade edge, to move it to the left or right, or to push it down so that it mushrooms out the sides (Wich may be very slighy in the mushrooming of steel, but looks huge along the edge).

depending on how bad the edge is, if its dented out, you can normally burnish any major deformations out with a good steel (like those sold by hand american). *burninshing = running a steel rod that is harder then the blade edge (and preferably very smooth) with pressure behind the steel, to reform the edge back into alingment. steeling = lightly running a hard steel rod over the edge to bring it back into alignment, better for slight misalignments and dings*

good luck finding a blade that will slice well, and be able to chop bone without messing up the edge. chances are it will never happen. everything breaks - everything, thats why an understanding of how to care, maintain, and fix is vital to any equipment that will be required to maintain a high level of performance.
 
I didn't swing the blade down on concrete in a rage to break it, I swung it at the bone in a rage to break it with one blow. The resulting impact shattered the bone, the cutting board, and cut through a bit of the concrete floor.

Not sure why it would chip, though. Didn't some guy at swamprat post a test where they cut through a concrete block and he said there was no damage to the blade? I didn't even hardly cut that far into the floor, as my primary target was the bone. Anyway, I am not sure if it was the bone or floor that did the damage, or both.

The first nicks in the blade WERE from just a bone shot, though (when I sliced half way through the bone in one blow).

I didn't think that mearly slicing bone would give the rat any damage, I thought you'd have to hit the blade against a rock or metal to start to chip the edge.
 
Maybe I'm just suspicious by nature or maybe I don't understand using a knife like a battle rat for slicing vegetables and steaks (i'd use something smaller and thinner but that's me) but both the posts I've read by Blain involve "battlerat bested by (insert food item here)"

Dude, you could probably go out and hack your way through a forest all day and not have problems with your blade...

Don't break your blade that seems kinda like an overreaction to some small chipping.
 
Blain, All steels react differently to impacts with different media. It is not uncommon for the very fine edge of any knife to deform under heavy impact with concrete and some types of bone. In this case, more than not, the edge deformation is a direct result of edge geometry over any other possible problem.

You wrote, "Didn't some guy at swamprat post a test where they cut through a concrete block and he said there was no damage to the blade? I didn't even hardly cut that far into the floor, as my primary target was the bone. Anyway, I am not sure if it was the bone or floor that did the damage, or both."

We did chop concrete blocks in half at the BLADE Show and there was NO damage to the blade. Of course, the edge was dulled but was easily resharpenable and we put the knife on our display table for the duration of the show for everyone to inspect.

Please return your knife the way it is. We will examine it and either resharpen it or replace it. If you wish to have an edge that will be more robust than the edge you currently have, we will simply add a few degrees to the angle and you will be set to go.

I don't feel that "intentionally destroying" the knife is in keeping with the spirit of fairness that we have extended to our customers in our warranty. However, it is important to point out that we do not shrink from our claims or from our warranty. Therefore, if you feel that intentionally breaking your Battle Rat because you are unhappy with the performance of the edge under heavy impact is fair, that is up to you, as you are the one who gets to make the final call. Our warranty is up to you and is laid out very clearly on our warranty page, "We will honor any guarantee that you give your knife against major damage. TRANSLATION: LIFETIME WARRANTY... NO QUESTIONS ASKED"

I respectfully request that we be allowed to examine the knife in its current condition. We will give you an honest appraisal of any problem that might be present, although it does sound like a simple matter of having the proper edge geometry for the intended task. Either way, we guarantee complete satisfaction, so you really can't go wrong. :)

Thanks and I'm sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you,

Jennifer
 
"In rage I STRUCK the blade down with ALL my force, it sliced another part of the bone, broke and shattered the cutting board, and sliced through a part of the concrete floor...."

Gee, sounds like one hell of a knife to me! :)
 
Blain said:
In rage I STRUCK the blade down with ALL my force, it sliced another part of the bone, broke and shattered the cutting board, and sliced through a part of the concrete floor....

QUOTE]

Why were you eating steak on the floor? Already chopped the table in two. Hacked the chairs too?

Treat SRKW honest and I believe they will treat you well.
Click to expand...
 
Hello Jennifer, and thanks for your input. :) The Queen has spoken!

Warren
 
I'd like to add that in my experience the quality/density of a cinderblock is quite a bit lower than most concrete slabs used for subfloors.

Hell, I know guys that have competed in ice-breaking competitions where they break 4" thick slabs of ice with their heads... you don't see them going after hockey rinks.
 
Just because they are tough knives doesnt mean that they are lightsabers! I can see it now: "Battle Rat Bested by Blast Doors" I was wandering areound an Imperial Star Destroyer when I descided to see if My Battle Rat could cut through the blast doors, to my extreme shok and horror, the mighty BR couldnt do it! So I got real mad and chopped all the Storm Troopers I could find into little bits. When I paused to examine the edge, I found it was chipped!!!....

Thor
 
Thank you very much, Jennifer, for understanding and trying to make this right. I had no intention to purposely damage a blade just because I could, I simply wanted to test out the blade and see what it was really made of. I had no intent or purpose to damage the blade just for the sake of damaging it.

I very much appreciate the offer of you making a steeper angle on the blade for me for heavier cutting tasks. I am just curious, how would that effect it's performance on cutting other things? What are the benefits and drawbacks? It will make the blade less likely to chip though, correct?

The only worry I have about just resharpening the edge is that one part of the edge is dented in and lower than the rest of the blade's edge. I am not sure how you could lengthen it.

What is the address I send the blade to, just the address on the website? Is there a telephone number or anything I could use to get in touch with you?


And to G19 about “Eating steak on the floor”…. Of course I’m not going to do my cutting tests on my nice kitchen table or counter top so that I could ruin it. The steak was all eaten, it was just the bone.
 
trying to research the rockwell hardness of bone (wich may not exist) is giving me a headache... needless to say - your pretty much not going to find a knife that can withstand bone contact (ESPECIALLY under high force and impact) that wont dent out, roll, or flatten significantly. on bone knifes, as jennifer pointed out, the edge bevel is gernnaly much lower then on a generall utility knife. for something that will be used on softer materials (skinning knife) you can keep a 21 degree bevel, or thinner, say 17 degree, without having it deform to much. with deboning, something much lower like 45 degree's (ax sharp) is much more apropriate. what your doing esentially is breaking the bone apart, not cutting it. bone saws often have a diamond coat on them to give them enough grit to get past the scratch resistancy of bone. also, im pretty sure that the tbone is part of the cows spine, near the lumbar area, so its pretty dense as far as bone goes (though no where near teeth density). some bones are reletively mealiable, but if its hard - its as hard as a rock, and pointy (has an edge on it), kind of like hitting the edge of your knife on another knife edge.

again, it would be very , very, very helpful to see a picture of your edge. if its chipped, then its a problem, if its dented, then all it needs is maitanence.


http://www.executiveseafoodgifts.com/Qstore/custom/porter_350.jpg
 
Thanks a lot Seth--now I have steak on my mind and am not going to anywhere near food for another three hours. :rolleyes:
 
to get rid of the part thats lower, if its dented, you can burnish it out, wich effectively mooshes the steel back up into the v that makes up the edge.

i was always disapointed in how my busse's performed with the factory edge - because it was a really low bevel at the edge, somewhere near 45-50 degree's. but then i got a SHBA that made me understand it a little better.

how you knife cuts when it has a low bevel like that will depend on how the cutting edge is finished. at a very high polish, and properly steeled, it'll cut excellently. but once its dulled, it will be like a butter knife.

with a steeper angle, it will seem to last longer as far as sharpness goes just by the fact that a dulled 21 degree edge has a sharper geometry then a dull 45 degree edge.


kind of like on a big chisel, when its pointier, it'll get into the material faster and easier, even when its really dulled out. where as if its really thick, and dull, your just mashing what your trying to break apart, instead of penetrating.


so as long as your willing to steel and strop your knife every couple of days/after hard use, it will seem razor sharp even though its got a fat edge on it.
 
man... that's a very good warranty. a vote of confidence indeed.

i think on the basis of that alone i need to go get myself a SR.

hmmm.

thanks for the post, jennifer.

-jon
 
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