batton with a cheap folder

[mr.trooper]

The test subject today is a $25 S&W Homelad defence. The medium is a hickory branch. The knife was left unocked for the first split, and locked for the second.

The damage resulting from the second split, with the blade locked.

Never one to get the hint, i set out to repare the knife. I got out my avil and straitend out the liner using a claw hammer. I then retempered the liner using a propane torch, and quenched it in 2-cycle motor oil, wich is responcible for most of the greenish brown discoloration.

A picture of the repared lock

There are few folders that can walk away from this kind of thing unscathed. Incidentaly, many of us carry folders for backup for our fixed blades. I think this makes a good case for owning a higher end folder, or perhaps carrying a smaller fixed blade as backup to your larger one.

 

[orwell]

fascinating. have you preformed this test with a more expensive folder?

 

[senoBDEC]

fascinating. have you preformed this test with a more expensive folder?

And perhaps with various locks of varying quality (i.e. a decent liner-lock, a framelock of low and good quality, etc)? Also, what about technique? I recall reading about certain stresses being worse for specific locks than others...

 

[Cliff Stamp]

You can vastly reduce the force on the lock by impacting between the lock and the wood, not on the tip. How hard were you swinging the baton?

-Cliff

 

[mr.trooper]

Orwell: I would gladly do so if i had one

Cliff: thanks, i didn't think of impacting the knife like that. Ill be sure to use that technique next time. I was swinging hard enough to get the job done, but not with all my strength; if that description helps at all.

After the re-heat treat, the liner lock seems a lot more stiff now than before, meaning that it pushes back against your thumb with more force now than it originaly did. how would this effect the strength of the lock?

 

[hardheart]

maybe you outta heat it with the torch again to draw down the temper, you've probably made it a bit brittle. If the steel is harder than it was before, it might break instead of bend next time you stress it this way.

 

[FlyingMuskrat]

I would be interested to see if your fixing of the liner would prevent damage if you repeated the test.

 

[Sharpy_swe]

orwell

Check this review of the Spyderco Manix cutleryscience.com review Spyderco Manix.html

They test splitting wood, chopping and digging a hole!

 

[Cobalt]

Orwell: I would gladly do so if i had one

There are few folders that can walk away from this kind of thing unscathed. Incidentaly, many of us carry folders for backup for our fixed blades. I think this makes a good case for owning a higher end folder, or perhaps carrying a smaller fixed blade as backup to your larger one.

I thought you might have tested a higher end folder based on this post.
I thicker liner lock wold have prevented this failure, however, there may be something else that might break.

How you baton it is a whole nother issue. You may have been able to make it survive by not putting two opposing forces and couples on that lock. Anyway, this is why Folders are not fixed blades.

 

[Vivi]

Interesting. My Opinels can do this very same application using similar technique and their handles are simply a piece of wood with a steel pin holding the blade to the handle.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=425239&highlight=opinel

 

[DaleW]

I've always thought that batoning with a folder was a last-ditch-save-my-backside technique. IMHO, even batoning with a fixed blade is stretching things unless you are using something like a Becker or Ontario RAT ---- those of the sharpened pry bar design and then the diameter of the timber you are attacking should be reasonable in proportion to the length of the knife you are using. That is the best case for hauling cutting tools that are as much short machetes as they are long knives. Having something with a good straight run on the top edge keeps the baton from bouncing onto your knuckles and so forth, but that doesn't make for the most ergonomic blade/handle orientation. Using too small a knife can leave you with the blade stuck in the wood too, and I don't relish the thought of being in a survival situation and having my most important tool disabled. You can follow a small knife that has begun a split with a wood wedge or even a rock.

IMHO, batoning with a smaller knife is better for cutting wedges out cross-grain to cut down small diameter stuff for shelter making and small fuel, rather than splitting something with a diameter more than half the length of the knife. The test is interesting to see the effect on a liner-lock knife--- I wonder how back locks compare.

I appreciate the info as this is something I have been researching recently. I have been looking for the best compromise between a light trail knife and an all-out survival tool. The Becker Necker seems to be on the light side of the selection. I have one and plan to build some scales that will extend the handle just a bit for better grip. The Ontario RAT-3 looks best from what I have seen so far with the RAT-5 being a good hearty (and heavier) choice. The Becker Campanion/BK2 is good for batoning, but way too heavy for hiking. From there it seems to go to 7" or longer mini-machetes that weigh as much as my sleeping bag. In fact, once the knives get to a certain point of size,weight, and cost, it is probably better to carry small quality folder for general cutting and a machete to do the dirty work with.

I'm all ears for resonably priced knives that have a 3"-4" flat ground blade with a good top edge for batoning. Folding models would be best at 3.5" or less. All should be under 5oz/140g for hiking.