battoning your survival knife

All the knives I own can baton. From thin machetes to blades 1/3 of an inch thick, I will baton every one of them. Never broke one of them. I do it for the enjoyment, but if in a survival situation, I sure would baton to split wood. I don't see why it is considered abuse by anyone, as in my opinion steel should beat wood every time.
 
Utican said:
on spliting a 6 inch log I was thought in survival school to save energy and cut wood in a fire, you are not going to make furniture and planks in a survival situation,
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No, you are correct. You will always try to find small kindling, and tinder to start your fire. Then you will slowly work your way to burning larger rounds.

However, have you ever attempted to start a fire in a good rain, or even after allot of rain?

If you can not find dry kindling, you need to make it. Even then, I wouldn't opt to baton a 6" log, but a 3" or 4" diameter log; absolutely.
 
Its a requirement of ALL my blades. The age old skill of making big wood into small wood is a primary skill of the outdoorsman. I use batoning to shape wood into boards, rectangles, triangles, round spindles, and just plain old ugly pieces. Woodland skills depend you being able to mold the resources you have to fit your needs.

I don't own a single knife that I wouldn't baton through a seasoned hardwood. Even my little ESKABAR can turn an otherwise useless piece of wood into several useful and necessary items to allow me to be more comfortable in the outdoors.

I've broken a few knives batoning, mostly due to bad technique, very hard wood, and just luck of the draw. Yes, they were all Kabars. I still own Kabars. Wanna know why? Each one still batoned enough wood to fill a dumptruck before they gave up the ghost.

Get you a good knife that can take it (Becker, I have to), and then baton a rick of seasoned hardwood with it. Now take it out to the real woods, and see if you can find anything to make a bowdrill kit with. Make a kit, make a fire, brew some tea, and admire your handywork and your knife.

Moose
 
moosez45 said:
Get you a good knife that can take it (Becker, I have to), and then baton a rick of seasoned hardwood with it. Now take it out to the real woods, and see if you can find anything to make a bowdrill kit with. Make a kit, make a fire, brew some tea, and admire your handywork and your knife.

Moose
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I like this!!!:thumbup:
 
Utican said:
how thick are the blades on a typical bushcraft knife and is full stick tang adequate or it has to be a true full tang
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1/8" seems to be a very common thickness, but there are plenty of 3/16" or 5/32" knives available.

there are even some 3/32" "tin knives" that get used for batoning.

stick tangs will work. but many people prefer a full tang.
 
I warmed up a can of something or other on the dash of the truck at work. To my temporary dismay I realized that it didn't have a pop top. I took my older schrade medium stockman and battoned the spey blade through the lid length wise, all the way around the top in order to get it open. Worked just fine with no damage at all to the blade.
 
I think common logic plays an important role in batoning. You wont use a 3inch knife to baton a 12 log through the middle...or at least I wont.....Rather start at the corner on smaller piece and work your way in....That way less likely of risk in breaking our survival tool (maybe the only one you have)....and by the time you get to the dry wood you almost have all the kindling you need.

Agree/disagree with my logic?
 
Batoning with a knife is more controlled and safer because the thing you are throwing around with force is blunt.

It's also much lighter to carry around a 6 or 7" blade than a 2 pound axe. I prefer batoning to using an axe even when I have one in the back of the car.

batoning1.jpg
 
Hi,

As many people have already said, I don't see batoning as abuse, it's a valid technique, not only in a survival situation, but for camp as well.

I baton regularly, I know all my knives can take it, in fact I wouldn't want to be stuck out somewhere with a knife I didn't KNOW could be used for that. There was a recent thread about this saying batoning was just for show and was unnessary. I couldn't disagree more. it's a quick, safe and reliable method to get dry wood at a usable size without having to carry an axe (I've got one of those as well and use it!).

I've never had a knife break on me using this technique, I've seen a couple break, but those were Mora's with rat tangs and were actually from the same batch (so that might have been a QC issue).

What some people don't appreciate (imho) is that batoning doesn't simply mean trying to smash your blade through a log. Wood selection e.g. straight, as knot free as possible, not too wide so that your having to hit down on the very tip of the blade all makes a difference.

atb, John
 
Utican, I think you're making a valid point if i'm reading you right.

In a *true* survival situation, your survival instructor taught you to cut wood by simply using it in a fire - meaning don't cut/split wood unnecessarily like as you mention to make planks. Definitely! Why expend the calories/time if you've got a fire going?

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but i wonder if in your survival class an important aspect was missed. The value of batonning is, as mentioned, to get dry tinder to start the fire. I wouldn't necessarily baton a 6" log unless it was only thing around - unlikely, but not impossible - UNLESS the wood is pretty wet and you need some bigger dry stuff to get it roaring!

I'd check out youtube icychap's video on his Trailmaster improvement - he illustrates excellent batonning technique. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2rtkheMo2I&feature=related

His demo is at the end of his video, but it's well worth watching to see it done right.
 
How I use my knives is situational, many things factor into the situation:
- The knife in question
- Whether I feel a need to baton
- Whether I want to baton
- How safe it is to risk damaging the knife

If the knife is my BK-7, BK-9 or my KA-BAR Kukri Machete then I would have no real fear of breaking the knife while batoning. I would generally have 3+ knives on hand so if I break a knife it wouldn't leave me poorly equipped. Not all of my knives would be suitable for batoning, but for the ones that are then why not use them for that?

My BK-7 doesn't seem to mind a bit of work with a baton:
IMG_8444.JPG


IMG_8446.JPG



Bottom line:
I'm not going to baton with my SAK or Opinel #6 or Mora with short tang, but I'm not going to treat my BK-7 like a fragile baby. I would try not to push a knife past its limits in a survival situation but I wouldn't hesitate to use a knife within its capabilities for a necessary task.
 
fmajor007 said:
Utican, I think you're making a valid point if i'm reading you right.

In a *true* survival situation, your survival instructor taught you to cut wood by simply using it in a fire - meaning don't cut/split wood unnecessarily like as you mention to make planks. Definitely! Why expend the calories/time if you've got a fire going?

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but i wonder if in your survival class an important aspect was missed. The value of batonning is, as mentioned, to get dry tinder to start the fire. I wouldn't necessarily baton a 6" log unless it was only thing around - unlikely, but not impossible - UNLESS the wood is pretty wet and you need some bigger dry stuff to get it roaring!

I'd check out youtube icychap's video on his Trailmaster improvement - he illustrates excellent batonning technique. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2rtkheMo2I&feature=related

His demo is at the end of his video, but it's well worth watching to see it done right.
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I watched that video, he had some nice modifications done to it.

On the right of the screen I noticed other Trailmaster videos, including this failure...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmO0XSWhV04&feature=related

I don't really have any particular issue with batoning, I've done it with a variety of knives and of course it works.

Someone above mentioned batoning a smaller knife and taking wood from the edge and working inwards. I don't know but to me this seems like this would put less stress on a blade than going straight through the middle. Yet we all see people splitting wood straight through the middle, why is this?

I often see people suggesting a hypothetical survival situation of been out in the woods in poor weather conditions and without other cutting tools. Surely if a person was going far enough away from other people, and at a time of year where bad weather could be reasonably expected then they would prepare themselves accordingly?
 
mcjhrobinson said:
batoning is a skill like anything else....why learn bowdrill when you can use a BIC?
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Because its very fulfilling and a useful skill to know when there are no bic or firesteels around. Its fun to do when your not in a "survival situation". Moose
 
Like fmajor said it is unnecessary in true survival situation, now to start a fire in wet seams like reasonable explanation and I will try and do just that, to split firewood is silly, make star fire, the only one you should do in a survival situation in my opinion, I was thought that by a man that teaches survival to all airforce troops in us, so yeah I take he knows what's he saying
 
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Hi Utican -

What i meant to say was that batoning can be very necessary in a true survival situation - especially for getting a fire started as well as maintaining a dry-fuel supply. Meaning the dry wood on the inner part of the log needs to be split/batonned from the wet stuff.

Once you have a hot, roaring fire going it is then that it may not be necessary to baton or trim-to-length the firewood. You simply feed the logs into the fire as they are consumed - no cutting necessary. This obviously works well with smaller diameter logs.

Also, depending on your survival instructor's frame-of-reference, a fire may not be a good thing at all. If a soldier/pilot is in unknown or behind enemy lines type territory the standard lesson is no fire and keep moving - pure EnE doctrine.

All instructors, myself included, bring a bias to their teaching. The good ones admit their bias and teach other methods than their own personal favorite - there are many right ways do accomplish most tasks - fire making included - but the basic laws are usually all the same.
 
You said it better , I'll try and dig around and see if there Is a video of someone demonstrating this in a video, the true wet conditions fire making, I admittedly have not tried this
 
Another factor to consider is the particulars of a given "survival" situation. Wet outer wood will of course dry in an established fire with hot coals, even sooner if you vector your heat. It will also steam pretty heavily in doing that. There are situations where a big column of steam might just come in handy...there are situations where it would less good.
 
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