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Battoning
- Thread starter pit man
- Start date
I never heard so much fuss over "batoning" until I started reading Bladeforums.
I can see where it's nice to know how to do it, should you be looking to cut a nice straight piece of wood for woodworking, but, I've been cutting and chopping wood for over 3 decades, and I haven't batonned anything.
Hammered on a splitting wedge, plenty.
And I could never get the hang of twirling the baton, neither.
I can see where it's nice to know how to do it, should you be looking to cut a nice straight piece of wood for woodworking, but, I've been cutting and chopping wood for over 3 decades, and I haven't batonned anything.
Hammered on a splitting wedge, plenty.
And I could never get the hang of twirling the baton, neither.
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how long did that take? looks like it was fun.
Sorry to mislead you guys,the clue was at the bottom of the page.The tree was actually felled by the weight of copious amounts of snow.
However in response to Coldwood I must say that hardly a day goes by when I don't have to batton wood at home for my woodstove!!!
However in response to Coldwood I must say that hardly a day goes by when I don't have to batton wood at home for my woodstove!!!
Codger_64
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I entered into a discussion some time back on the Camillus forum when someone was touting the "art" of "batoning" a knife through a log. I repeated just what my old Grandfather taught me... a right tool for the job, and a knife is not the right tool for splitting logs. Knives are cutting tools, not log splitting wedges to be beaten and bludgeoned through a log. I was taqught to use an axe to fell and a hatchet to limb, a saw to buck, an axe, wedge, and maul to split. One fellow made an angry post about having bought a nice Schrade knife, only to have the blade break when he beat/batoned it into a log. His tirade demeaning the knife ended with him declaring that he would never buy another Schrade, to which I could only say... good. Well, on the Camillus forum, someone fetched forth a link where Ethan Becker actually stated that his knife was designed to do this. Why? Hell I don't know, but they were guranteed to stand up under such "normal" treatment. Now, I had never in my life heard of such treatment of a knife being "normal", but there you are. Cliffie isn't the only one who likes to fell and split trees for firewood with a knife, and manufacturers are designing knives just for this. IMHO, this negates their usefulness in many roles I consider normal for a knife, but then I am just an old...
Codger
Codger
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I entered into a discussion some time back on the Camillus forum when someone was touting the "art" of "batoning" a knife through a log. I repeated just what my old Grandfather taught me... a right tool for the job, and a knife is not the right tool for splitting logs. Knives are cutting tools, not log splitting wedges to be beaten and bludgeoned through a log. I was taqught to use an axe to fell and a hatchet to limb, a saw to buck, an axe, wedge, and maul to split. One fellow made an angry post about having bought a nice Schrade knife, only to have the blade break when he beat/batoned it into a log. His tirade demeaning the knife ended with him declaring that he would never buy another Schrade, to which I could only say... good. Well, on the Camillus forum, someone fetched forth a link where Ethan Becker actually stated that his knife was designed to do this. Why? Hell I don't know, but they were guranteed to stand up under such "normal" treatment. Now, I had never in my life heard of such treatment of a knife being "normal", but there you are. Cliffie isn't the only one who likes to fell and split trees for firewood with a knife, and manufacturers are designing knives just for this. IMHO, this negates their usefulness in many roles I consider normal for a knife, but then I am just an old...
Codger
I never heard of battoning wood until I started hanging out on this forum. That said, it makes sense to me in some scenarios. What I'm thinking about is you're wandering in the woods with just your fixed blade (no hatchet or other means of splitting wood), it's raining, you want to build a fire, and so you decide to use your knife to split wood so as to get at the dry stuff inside the branches, thus making it easier to build the fire.
Having at least one knife along that won't break under that kind of usage is, IMO, not at all a bad idea. Alternatively, carry a hatchet.
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Heh... I have a similar pic of me standing next to a lightning-split pine, brandishing my TrailMaster... I wasn't bold enough to post it, though
I understand your codgerliness on this subject, and I can't disagree that batonning is a bit over-rated. As SkunkWerx and bulgron said, I never thought much about it till I started coming here. However I have a couple knives that just love to baton, and they're quite useful for "normal" tasks as well. Designing a wilderness or survival knife with batonning in mind makes a lot more sense than sawteeth, I can say that for sure!
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Okay, I can see "batoning" as one technique. I've also used mauls and splitting wedges. As I said, I've never failed to use twigs and bark and dry dead wood to start a fire (and you can find those even in a rainstorm, I've done it). The idea of beating on my knife to get usable wood is something that is foreign to me. And unnecessary. I'm sorry if this offends "batoners".
Codger_64
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I have a severe dislike for those on a knife. Say you thrust your knife up to the green river in one guy's breastbone, and the teeth get the blade stuck, completely negating the anti-suction design of the blood groove, then you are unarmed at the mercy of the other three ninjas, and where the hell is mall security? Down at the donut shop!
Codger
i like to lightly baton with my small 2 inch fixed blade sometimes when i want to split up a 1 inch stick of nice dry stick from the underside of a spruce (?) into nice unform little matchsticks when i don't want to pull out the big guns. of course, i could always just shave some fuzzies instead...
i once read about this guy baton-chopping through a small tree for one reason or another. i don't mean he split it, he went at it like you would with an axe. i decided to try it once...it is alright if you don't have a large enough tool...but anything you can baton chop through is going to be small enough to break over your knee...
i once read about this guy baton-chopping through a small tree for one reason or another. i don't mean he split it, he went at it like you would with an axe. i decided to try it once...it is alright if you don't have a large enough tool...but anything you can baton chop through is going to be small enough to break over your knee...
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All this talk about battoning reminds me that I really have to try it someday, just for kicks. I even bought my Mountaineer II because I thought that the A2 toolsteel would be tough enough to take the abuse.
But I'm with Coldwood. I've never failed to find enough tinder even in very wet weather with which to build a fire. The exception to this were some car-camping trips to state parks back in the day when I could purchase quartered birch from the park rangers, but was not allowed to gather smaller stuff for tinder. However, a little advanced planning (read: throw the sunday newspaper in the car before heading out) solved the tinder problem nicely.
But I'm with Coldwood. I've never failed to find enough tinder even in very wet weather with which to build a fire. The exception to this were some car-camping trips to state parks back in the day when I could purchase quartered birch from the park rangers, but was not allowed to gather smaller stuff for tinder. However, a little advanced planning (read: throw the sunday newspaper in the car before heading out) solved the tinder problem nicely.
Codger, like you I was brought up splitting with a sledge and wedge.
hell, I remember the first actual heavy maul my dad got!
We thought we were living then! A boy's axe would do alright on smaller straight grained wood like oak, but, the maul and wedge handled the big stuff.
I did get a Becker Bk1 for it's heft, and to use "harshly" , if need be.
I wouldn't hesitate to beat it through a stubborn peice of wood, but, would only do so if absolutely necessary.
I agree with Coldwood, Even when it's wet out I can manage to find some tinder and kindling, use my SAK to "skin" the few mm's of wetness off of a stick, and shave a few dry curls. To baton (a log) means you have a log! Who cut this log? not me.
I look at batoning as something I leave in my bag of tricks, just in case.
may be useful at some point, but, it hasn't been in my mode of operation, and so far, so good.
I have some stout blades that can certainly take it, but the amount of times I actually have the need or urge will probably be few and far between.
The fact we know about it is a good thing.
I'm not saying batoning is worthless, or unecessary, no, not at all, I'm just saying it's not high on my list of things to do.
hell, I remember the first actual heavy maul my dad got!
We thought we were living then! A boy's axe would do alright on smaller straight grained wood like oak, but, the maul and wedge handled the big stuff.
I did get a Becker Bk1 for it's heft, and to use "harshly" , if need be.
I wouldn't hesitate to beat it through a stubborn peice of wood, but, would only do so if absolutely necessary.
I agree with Coldwood, Even when it's wet out I can manage to find some tinder and kindling, use my SAK to "skin" the few mm's of wetness off of a stick, and shave a few dry curls. To baton (a log) means you have a log! Who cut this log? not me.
I look at batoning as something I leave in my bag of tricks, just in case.
may be useful at some point, but, it hasn't been in my mode of operation, and so far, so good.
I have some stout blades that can certainly take it, but the amount of times I actually have the need or urge will probably be few and far between.
The fact we know about it is a good thing.
I'm not saying batoning is worthless, or unecessary, no, not at all, I'm just saying it's not high on my list of things to do.
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I don't understand this controversy raising its head again. It almost seems like those that don't want to baton their knives, want to convince those that do, not to. Who cares? I might not be as old as Codger (60 - me that is) but I've batoned wood for years, although there are some knives I wouldn't, cuz they're too pretty. Also, I might baton a Mora through smaller pieces of wood, but I wouldn't try to split a log with it. It all comes down to common sense.
Many well-respected survival instructors teach batonning, including Mors Kochanski.
It boils down to this, if you don't want to baton your knife, don't. As for me, if it's good enough for Mors and Ethan Becker, then it's good enough for me.
Doc
Many well-respected survival instructors teach batonning, including Mors Kochanski.
It boils down to this, if you don't want to baton your knife, don't. As for me, if it's good enough for Mors and Ethan Becker, then it's good enough for me.
Doc
I posted this thread as a joke but as some issues have been raised I ask you this.When I need really small kindling to start my stove what am I to use if not my knife?I agree that when in the woods you can always find small sticks but when at home I use what is in my woodpile and that consists of large quarted log sections which I then baton down as required.
Hey Pit, we knew it was a joke, and also a great picture of the wrath of mother-nature.
here is my take, which is by means correct, right or more than personal opinion, grain of salt applies:
I too have quartered logs by my back door. I use a hatchet (or Meat Cleaver) and slice off fairly thin pieces as I need it.
Since we are starting a woodstove or fireplace, we have access to newspaper cardboard, sticks, whatever.
I usually don't need what we all would call "tinder", because newspaper is my tinder, I go right to kindling.
Now, for discussion sake, let's say I have no paper at all, nothing.
I would split down kindling in the usual fashion, then , take a knife, grab a piece of kindling, and start a wittling stroke on the wood, no batoning through thick wood, several minutes and I would have wittled off some curls, flakes, small peices, enough to catch a flame.
if I didn't have a hatchet (or cleaver) i'd use a boys axe (lightaxe) to split down my kindling.
Now, in actuality, i split several nights worth of kindling into a 5 gallon plastic bucket. along the process you get little flakes and chips, small enough to catch fire, if you so needed to.
Also, after splitting kindling, I can usually pic up peices and peel off small toothpick sized pieces.
OK, now Fast Forward to wilderness camp. I have no logs.
It's what i can forage. If it's a long piece, I don't waste effort chopping and hacking at it, I lay it over the fire, and burn it in half, then feed the two charred ends into the fire as they burn.
My idea of when i would need to Baton Wood, would be if I needed to make something out of wood, not just wittle, but actually fabricate something, and needed some farily durable pieces of wood, not dead sticks.
This would require sawing a log with a pocket saw or bow saw, then batoning square stock out of the log that was cut. This would be a lot of effort for firewood, but, would be necessary for actual Woodwork.
If i was in the wilderness with a chainsaw, or two man bucksaw, then I would have a maul and wedge for splitting.
If you don't have a hatchet, or any other beefy tool, and you have to split down further, your quartered logs, then I guess Batoning is where you are.
Again, just my personal thoughts and how i have handled firewood and woodwork during my life.
Good discussion.
Maybe I'll just ask outright, when is batoning a necessity? or the preferred called for way of reducing stock?
here is my take, which is by means correct, right or more than personal opinion, grain of salt applies:
I too have quartered logs by my back door. I use a hatchet (or Meat Cleaver) and slice off fairly thin pieces as I need it.
Since we are starting a woodstove or fireplace, we have access to newspaper cardboard, sticks, whatever.
I usually don't need what we all would call "tinder", because newspaper is my tinder, I go right to kindling.
Now, for discussion sake, let's say I have no paper at all, nothing.
I would split down kindling in the usual fashion, then , take a knife, grab a piece of kindling, and start a wittling stroke on the wood, no batoning through thick wood, several minutes and I would have wittled off some curls, flakes, small peices, enough to catch a flame.
if I didn't have a hatchet (or cleaver) i'd use a boys axe (lightaxe) to split down my kindling.
Now, in actuality, i split several nights worth of kindling into a 5 gallon plastic bucket. along the process you get little flakes and chips, small enough to catch fire, if you so needed to.
Also, after splitting kindling, I can usually pic up peices and peel off small toothpick sized pieces.
OK, now Fast Forward to wilderness camp. I have no logs.
It's what i can forage. If it's a long piece, I don't waste effort chopping and hacking at it, I lay it over the fire, and burn it in half, then feed the two charred ends into the fire as they burn.
My idea of when i would need to Baton Wood, would be if I needed to make something out of wood, not just wittle, but actually fabricate something, and needed some farily durable pieces of wood, not dead sticks.
This would require sawing a log with a pocket saw or bow saw, then batoning square stock out of the log that was cut. This would be a lot of effort for firewood, but, would be necessary for actual Woodwork.
If i was in the wilderness with a chainsaw, or two man bucksaw, then I would have a maul and wedge for splitting.
If you don't have a hatchet, or any other beefy tool, and you have to split down further, your quartered logs, then I guess Batoning is where you are.
Again, just my personal thoughts and how i have handled firewood and woodwork during my life.
Good discussion.
Maybe I'll just ask outright, when is batoning a necessity? or the preferred called for way of reducing stock?
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On a few occasions over fifty years, when backpacking without an axe, I have needed to get at the dry interior of wood. Just a few. On those occasions, I used a fairly small knife (4" blade) to cut -- not split - wood by batoning. That is not much of a "test" of a fixed-blade knife. The blade is in contact with the wood being cut when the impact is applied to the spine of the knife with a piece of wood. Seems lots less stressful than trying to "chop" wood with a knife.
Mmmh, I am amused by this hammering and splitting with a maul, what are you guys taking to the woods? A 15 lbs sledgehammer? Or is someone actually thinking that you would stand at your backyard logpile with a 4" knife to make firewood for the fireplace?
When I tested a knife recently, I did some batoning. I didn't do that to test whether it would stand up to it...I knew it would, any decent fixed blade will... I tested how well it would do it, read: how easy it was. I think most people that argue against batoning have never tried it, it is the same principle as the splitting maul so it is no surprise it works. But really it is just a means to an end. Two weekends ago I batoned, gasp, a folder with no harm done to it. I didn't test it, I wasn't stupid either, I wanted a walking stick, found a branch I liked, but it was too long, carving the excess end off took forever, so I batoned right through it, and no I didn't have a saw, nor an axe, not even hatchet or a fixed blade. But then again, I didn't plan to take a little hike. I was early for a meeting and there was a nice, but muddy wood nearby. Used the same methode to clean of the side branches, too. Much faster than any other methode you would be able to employ with a relatively small folding knife.
Batoning is just one of many options, but it is a very sensible means to an end.
When I tested a knife recently, I did some batoning. I didn't do that to test whether it would stand up to it...I knew it would, any decent fixed blade will... I tested how well it would do it, read: how easy it was. I think most people that argue against batoning have never tried it, it is the same principle as the splitting maul so it is no surprise it works. But really it is just a means to an end. Two weekends ago I batoned, gasp, a folder with no harm done to it. I didn't test it, I wasn't stupid either, I wanted a walking stick, found a branch I liked, but it was too long, carving the excess end off took forever, so I batoned right through it, and no I didn't have a saw, nor an axe, not even hatchet or a fixed blade. But then again, I didn't plan to take a little hike. I was early for a meeting and there was a nice, but muddy wood nearby. Used the same methode to clean of the side branches, too. Much faster than any other methode you would be able to employ with a relatively small folding knife.
Batoning is just one of many options, but it is a very sensible means to an end.