Bayonet as primary heavy duty/beater blade?

B

bloodnut

Joined
Mar 22, 2001
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87
Please hear me out. I started out lusting after a Busse Basic 5. IMHO, that blade epitomizes the ideal general purpose knife which is also suitable for skinning the (very) occasional deer. My low-cost source on these dried up before I was able to obtain one. So began the search for the next best thing.

I looked hard at the Nimravus, Emerson Police Utility, and the REKAT Pikuni (in that order) as well as short Ka-Bars, etc. I still have not talked myself out of the Pikuni. I am explaining my problem to a buddy and he says, "What you need is a bayonet!" It just so happened that I had just look at some of those too!

Advantages: Very tough, cheap ($40), relatively compact for the length, if I lose it or it breaks - no big deal (kinda look cool too).

Downside: Most are spear point with narrow blades; maybe not the most useful blade shape (although I did locate one patterned after a Ka-Bar).

So, I started out to get what is arguably one of the best built bades on the planet and am now strongly considering a very low-tech alternative (although I kinda like low tech :) )Am I nuts or what?

Comments, criticism, ideas appreciated.
 
A good bayonet can be made to do a lot of knife chores, but if you have handled/used a Busse, then try to force a bayonet to fill the role of a substitute, you will not be happy with it. Have you tried posting a "wanted" notice for a used Basic 5?
 
just because you can't get a low cost busse doesn't mean you have to get a tool that isn't really ideal.

my problems with bayonets are they are thin and don't have the chopping power needed. there are great knives out there for less.

cold steel bushman $20.00

martindale golok $30-40

dexter russel fish splitter $15.00

ontario spec plus, has all types of GOOD knives in the $30-60 range

I am sure you can find something better suited for outdoor tasks than a bayonet.
 
Bayonets come in all shapes and sizes. The entire history of cutlery was replayed in fast forward when bayonets first came into use about 300 years ago. The US M7 (original M16 bayonet), probably the first one that comes to mind, was based on the WWII M3 fighting knife and is limited as a utility knife. But, there are other bayonets such as the Spanish 1969 Cetme that make very good and cheap field knives.

That one is still one of my favorite field knives. It has an 8" blade that recurves into a spear point. The recurve is very mild and the whole piece has a maximum blade width of 1 inch, which provides some of the advantage of a recurve without making the blade clumsy on a whole. The handle is checkered plastic over a full tang, with a heavy pommel that works well to hammer in tent stakes. It is also hard to best the sturdy plastic sheath for strong and simple field carry. It took a little work with a sharpening stone, but I managed to put a nice edge on this knife. The blade is made from carbon steel so it's though and easy to sharpen.

Just check and identify the bayonet before you use it. Some knife bayonets are very rare and valuable and should be protected.

n2s
 
DWK: Fortunately (?!) I've never handled a Busse so I don't yet know what I am missing. If they are half as good as made they're out to be, they are twice as good as what I already have. :p I expect I will eventually get one second-hand, just not soon.

Chrisolia: I actually have the Bushman. It is what it is. It's just so durn thick (wide? deep?) and the sheath leaves something to be desired.

N2S: That is exactly what I had in mind and I found that EXACT (Cetme)blade including sheath for $10 plus shipping!! This is a no-lose, no brainer. I'm gonna get it!.

For $10 I get a battle-tested, high-carbon blade? Outstanding. I'll give it a try and post later after some field use. I would like something closer to the 5" range, but what the heck (what man couldn't use a couple more inches, right?:eek: ).
 
Get yourself a BK&T Campanion and never look back. Seriously, it's a great five inch blade of super steel, a great handle that's comfortable for ANY hand size, and can be had for less than $75.0 from many outlets. The only "downside" of the Campanion is that the tip is a little too thick to make the belly slice on small game; works great on large game, though. For squirells and stuff, I use either my BM 720, or a Mora. And the Campanion chops a lot better than you'd expect from a 5 inch blade. Great Kydex sheath, and since the blade is flat ground, it's great for splitting (with a baton) and will make fuzz sticks like you wouldn't believe. I piggybacked a Shcrade skinner to my Campanion sheath, along with a pouch to hold a survival kit. A complete package that's fairly light and easy to carry.
 
TH,

If you've never handled a Busse Basic, you may not want the 5 unless you have small hands. The 7 and 9 fit me well, but the 5 has the smaller handle of the 3. I don't have very big hands, but I like the 7/9 grip size a lot better---especially for heavy work.

Some of the foregoing suggestions are also excellent. When working over water I often use a CS Bushman with a paracord wrapped handle. It's no Busse, but it works pretty darn well and if I lose it I'm out less than $20. I've also had good performance from the CS SRK. In addition, I like the BK & T line, based on the one I own.

If you decide you want a Basic 7, I have one in the trade forum that I bought for a relative who was unable to take it.
 
Arrrrggghhhh!! You guys are killin' me! All I want(ed) is a $10 blade!

V Sharke: you read my little mind with the Campanion. Looked hard at it and the new BK&T 7 incher prior to posting. I felt the Basic 5 was pushing envelope for being a "clunky" blade (am I talking over your head?) and the Campanion was a little more clunky than I could tolerate. (mind you, I've never actually held either . Then you come along with your little rave reviews (not to mention those I found after a quick search!). Actually if I could get the blade shape of the new BK&T Utility in a 5" length, I'd probably buy three of 'em.

Is your Schrade the Sharpfinger? Every hunter seems to have one. It does a very nice job.

DWK: I looked real quick and did not see your 7 in the trade forum; will look more tomorrow. Honestly, the 7 is a bit large for my intended purpose (although the bayonets I've been looking at are much longer - go figure). I could still be talked into a 7 tho :).

I'll go and get out my Bushman just to give it another look. Is that cord wrap just a plain wrap arond the handle. I just printed the cord-wrap page from Strider knives today and will try that pattern with a Woo this weekend.

Thanks for the input guys. Any additional insight is appreciated.
 
Tommy, I actually have no idea what model my Schrade is. It's definitely NOT the Sharpfinger, though. Those are nice blades, though, for the money.

My Schrade is probably at least 50 years old, or more. It was my first "good" knife, as well as my first fixed blade. My Uncle gave it to me 25 years ago, and it was ancient when I got it. He also gave me a set of bench stones, and I learned to sharpen knives on those stones, with that blade.

I know what you mean by "clunky", and the Campanion *is* a bit wide. If you like that general shape and length, but want something that isn't so wide and thick, try Jeff Randall's Laser Strike. I've been lusting after one for a while. It's way more than a bayonet, or even the Campanion, but well worth it from everything I've heard. If you paired the LS up with a hatchet or machete, you'd have the perfect fixed blade pair for long-term backwoods survival.
 
Okay V Shrake, this is starting to get a little spooky. Prior to my last post, I dug out the 09/2001 Tactical Knives. Wanna take a guess as to the cover knife? Yeah, the Laser Strike. They also profiled the Emerson Police Utility, Camillus Talon, and the KOA Yukon Belt knife (like a Grohman). These are all attractive to me. As much as I like the design of the LS (and it is VERY nice), I have a hard time justifying $180 (as advertised in TK) for a 4.5" knife of 1095 steel. Heck, I bet I could pick up DWK's Basic 7 for that :D . I understand there is more to a knife than just the steel, still...

Does anyone know offhand whether the Emerson is a chisel grind? I've seen conflicting information on that. The "backside" view of it on the Emerson site reveals no edge bevel that I can see.

I guess this thread is kinda getting away from the original topic (that never happens, right?). I've about come full circle to the point that I think I can do whatever needs doing with my BM 710 M2 and some other largish fixed blade. My original thoughts were, if I can't get the INFI, I might as well go back to high carbon steel, of which bayonets arguably are the cheapest/toughest. I guess I would feel a little silly though walking around in a deer camp with a bayonet (although I would probably get my choice of stands :eek: ).

Maybe I'll email DWK. That 7 ought to complement the 710 nicely....
 
Originally posted by Tommy Hawk
I've about come full circle to the point that I think I can do whatever needs doing with my BM 710 M2 and some other largish fixed blade. My original thoughts were, if I can't get the INFI, I might as well go back to high carbon steel, of which bayonets arguably are the cheapest/toughest. ...Maybe I'll email DWK. That 7 ought to complement the 710 nicely.
Click to expand...
I'm a huge fan of the Busse Basic 7, considering that I'm a little fella. :D So I heartily recommend checking out DWK's knife. And I think it would indeed complement the 710 very nicely as a big knife & little knife combo.

However if cost is a factor, your statement about covering anticipated knife chores with a BM 710 and a "largish fixed blade" high-carbon knife leads me to suggest looking hard at the Becker Combat Utility Knife. 1SKS has them for a touch over $50, which is a pretty good price for a sturdy knife in that size window. At least when I ordered mine when they first were announced that was the price they were.

Sorry if I've just muddied the water more. You can't go wrong with a Busse Basic 7 IMHO.
 
I agree that $180.00 seems a little steep, but consider what you're getting. 1095 isn't a super steel, but with a good heat treat (which TOPS provides), it still does a heck of a job. Plus, you get a darn nice Kydex sheath, plus a large ferro rod. And the knife has the added options of the bow drill divot in the handle, and the natural flint striking facility if you want to experiment with that. Of course, the LS wouldn't be nearly the chopper that the Campanion or the Basic 7 or the latest BK&T are. As with Life in general, knives are a trade-off. One knife can't do it all.

The only knife I've ever seen that I was actually impressed with, but would NEVER buy due to the cost versus size/steel equation is the WSI Ranger. $150.00 for a knife the same size as my REKAT Utlity Knife (which I got very slightly used for $25.00) is outrageous. Sure, it's got a great heat treat, and the ranging holes are very gee-whiz, but no way would I buy one. It'd make a fine gift, though. :~}
 
Sorry, I forgot to provide a link to the BK&T Combat Utility Knife which 1SKS has for $51.99. http://www.1sks.com/store/becker-knife-and-tool-combat-utility-knife.html

It'll be interesting to see how this blade stacks up vis-a-vis the Busse Basic 7, especially since it costs 1/4 as much as the #7. Both knives have the same size blade. Weight between the two is also very close (Busse=12oz, BK&T=13oz) and I expect the balance point won't be terribly different between them. I think the handle on both will be comfortable when used hard. I suspect that the biggest differentiating factor between the two knives will primarily be the blade geometry, with steel quality playing a more secondary role. Also, the Busse has a slight included angle between the blade and the handle (about 5 degrees of drop per Cliff Stamp's Basic 7 review), while the BK&T blade extends in a straight line from the handle. This should give the Busse a slight advantage in chopping chores.
 
i got a cetme bayonet from a gun show for $10 flat a very good deal and a very good blade it out chopped all of my other knives before i sharpened it
and it does not break... easily

also i'm planning to get the gun to go with it
 
What James said about 'doing in a pinch' is correct.
Honestly though I too would forget about a bayonet , most of the samples I have seen have too thin a tip for the long run , IMO.
Not knocking them at all , I have a very nice "Theatre modded" bayonet but I would never use it for the great outdoors.
I dont about your cash situation but take some time and look around on eBay , last year I bought this rusty , abused blade for a total of 12$ American.
It has a 10 inch blade and a fat belly , almost like a mini machete , perhaps "gaucho" style. It's from Argentina at any rate , after a few hours of work and elbow grease it is a fully functional (albeit not the prettiest) field knife.
 
The AKM bayonet makes a passable field knife once you get a decent edge on it….not the greatest knife but a better one than any of the other bayonets currently available at very low cost. (It is interesting the Navy’s Mk3 UDT knife and the Army’s M9 bayonet are loosely based on the AKM bayonet.)…..


….But I think that you may well be better off with the Bushman. I wrapped the handle on mine with 100 MPH tape for a better grip and stuffed the handle with a bit of survival gear (mini fishing and sewing kits, candle stub, mini compass, matches and some cotton balls for fire starting). I also rigged up a paracord baldric (sling) so that I don’t have to wear the sheath on my belt.






- Frank
 
Back to the original question:

I carried a bayonet (military surplus) years ago as a field knife. The spear point design is sturdy, no doubt, and the model I had was thick enough to resist breaking when used as a bit of a pry bar.

The more I used it as a field knife, though, the less I liked it. That long, narrow spear point shape is great for sticking into torsos, but it is of limited effectiveness for chopping, slicing, whittling, dressing and cleaning game and fish, etc. Better than nothing, yes, but....

I don't have the $$$ to play with Busses - but I've gotten some Swamp Rats (the "user" Busse!), and something like the Camp Tramp is so far beyond a bayonet as a field knife I can't even begin to explain!

If you're seriously looking for a field knife, the Swamp Rat/Busse design is truly tops! If that's out of your price range, I'd suggest the Becker line of knives - $ for $ they are a great deal, and have much of the functionality of a Busse Basic or Swamp Rat Camp Tramp.
 
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