Be careful of spine whacks

Insipid Moniker said:
While there is no substitute for safe, proper technique, I expect every part of a product to function properly when I purchase it. It's no more acceptable to sell a knife with a faulty lock than to sell a gun with a faulty safety.
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When you put it like that, it's tough not to see both sides of the issue....

But then we sort of have to get into what constitutes faulty. While I think any linerlock should be able to withstand "a reasonable amount of force" how to we decide what that is? Further, a deliberate spine whack could be construed as improper use of the tool, no? Personally I'd say labeling it as such would be going too far so I wouldn't call it improper use, but I could see that happening.
 
some replies will always be pretty lame when it comes to this type of stuff....don't mind them too much.

To want a more idiot-proof/accident-proof knife in a similar package is not foolish or mark of a lesser man.
 
"Lock failed on the knife I've been using for months with no issue. In the trash."
Is like saying.
"Truck is out of gas. Time to sell it"
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
some replies will always be pretty lame when it comes to this type of stuff....don't mind them too much.

To want a more idiot-proof/accident-proof knife in a similar package is not foolish or mark of a lesser man.
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You know what lock is idiot/accident proof? A fixed blade. Of course you have to knock the edge off with a file too.
 
Molly55 said:
I hate to do it but I threw three knives right into the trash just now because I just don't ever want to use them again or even give them away.
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:eek: I'll take them!! I use slipjoints half the time, I'm not worried about the lock failing because I whacked the spine against something..
 
marcinek said:
You know what lock is idiot/accident proof? A fixed blade. Of course you have to knock the edge off with a file too.
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What I'm really interested in is, how did your fixed knife hold up when performing the pry bar test?
 
I have a couple issues with the spine whack test. The main one being that in nearly every spine whack test I have seen people have absolutely no positive pressure on the lock. The same pressure that would be applied in nearly 98% of all grips you will have on the knife when using it. That and I have had liner and frame locks for more than half my life and the ONLY time I have ever had a lock fail on me was by doing this stupid test. When using my knives as knives with proper grip? never.
 
bladeboss said:
"Lock failed on the knife I've been using for months with no issue. In the trash."
Is like saying.
"Truck is out of gas. Time to sell it"
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A more apt analogy would be finding out your truck had faulty seatbelts. Personally, I would get rid of any knife that claimed to lock and failed with a bump on a cardboard box. Of course I wouldn't drive without seatbelts and some would, so there you go.
 
I personally feel a light spine wack test is fine, I won't slam it hard, but if it won't pass a light tap, and a moderate negative pressure test (no impact) I won't use it and I consider the lock defective, and poor quality control on the manufacturer/maker. Any properly fit liner/frame lock should be able to take a light spine wack and moderate negative pressure and not fail.

To me it's no different than having a firearm that won't go off with an impact. If everything is done right you should never drop a firearm or have it experience such an impact, but I'd still prefer one that doesn't go off if that happens. The same is true of my knives I've seen enough accidents where a negative spine load is encountered that I don't want a knife lock that fails when it does.

A.T. Barr recommends not only a spine pressure, but spine wack test when evaluating the quality of a knife. Both Bob Kaspar and Joe Talmadge recommend variations of a torque test that many knives that will not pass a light spine wack will also not pass.

Frankly I believe the average knife enthusiast has become way too accepting of poor liner/frame lock fit. I see guys defending knives costing hundreds of dollars with liner lock slip, lock rock etc. saying it's not a big deal. For that cost they should be fit properly, and a properly fit liner/frame lock won't do either. I'm sure the makers of those knives appreciate the customers reduced expectation of quality and fit and finish as it no doubt translates to lower manufacturing and quality assurance costs.
 
RedLynx said:
When you put it like that, it's tough not to see both sides of the issue....

But then we sort of have to get into what constitutes faulty. While I think any linerlock should be able to withstand "a reasonable amount of force" how to we decide what that is? Further, a deliberate spine whack could be construed as improper use of the tool, no? Personally I'd say labeling it as such would be going too far so I wouldn't call it improper use, but I could see that happening.
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It's a tricky question. You see some people quite literally smash the spine of the knife into a cinderblock and that's waaay into abuse territory. On the other hand, Spyderco tests each knife with a light spine whack before they ship them.
 
I feel like a lock on a knife is like a safety on a gun. It's a great thing but it doesn't replace proper handling.
 
WHACK: To strike with a smart, resounding blow or blows.

The definition of "whack" from Dictionary.com. I used italics for the word smart for obvious reasons. I have spine whacked a folder or two in my time, but stopped that foolishness long ago. What I found to work is to spine tap my folders. Again from Dictionary.com,

TAP: To strike with a light barely audible blow or blows; hit with repeated, slight blows.

I have found that tapping a blade with 5 quick light taps against the palm of my hand, or against a padded surface will usually tell me what I want to know about the lock. Of course you should ALWAYS use the right tool for the job at hand. Any folder, be it a locking, or non locking one, should NEVER be used for a task from which a reasonable person would expect failure to be the outcome.

To many people have begun to think that locking folders are as strong as a fixed blade, I did at one time, but it just is not so.

Remember: folding knives are already broken. If the task requires a fixed bladed knife to ensure completion, then use the damn fixed blade!:thumbup::)
 
You might also look at it like you are compromising the mechanism. Many safety mechanisms are only designed to work one time and then need replacing. Now that might not be the case with a knife, but you are wearing it out prematurely. I don't want to play roulette with it and see how many spine wacks it can take before it fails with my fingers in the way. I think this comes from the manufactures spine wack tests. Well to that I would say most major auto manufacturers total their cars during research and development. It doesn't mean they intend you to drive them that way though.
 
I do spine whacks all the time to my knives and get the desired results. It closes the knife, why else would I try to force a knife close and expect it not too?

Than again I don't hit it against a brick with all my force, swing it around with reckless disregard, stab it into things wildly for no apparent reason. In fact I should rephrase that spine whack thing I do with a knife it's more of a spine push when I am closing my slip joints.
 
I only own 2 linerlock knives, a leatherman wave and a charge, and I am even more worried about THEM closing than I am about the slipjoints I use. If my grip is incorrect I can (and have done) easily depress the liner lock, Whereas with a slipjoint it requires the same force to close the knife accidentally as it takes on purpose.
 
Like Michael Walker says, he perfected the liner lock, a liner lock when it fails should fail in towards the opposite side of the knife and lock the knife open. If it doesn't it isn't made correctly. Slip joints if it is well made I would think have a stiff enough spring where standard use wouldn't affect the accidental closing of the knife I would think. I think though that is why the lock back was invented etc.etc. keepem sharp
 
longbow said:
Like Michael Walker says, he perfected the liner lock, a liner lock when it fails should fail in towards the opposite side of the knife and lock the knife open. If it doesn't it isn't made correctly. Slip joints if it is well made I would think have a stiff enough spring where standard use wouldn't affect the accidental closing of the knife I would think. I think though that is why the lock back was invented etc.etc. keepem sharp
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Agreed. This is actually one of the main reasons I don't care for liner or framelocks. Any lock mechanism can experience gross failure, one which destroys the mechanism and, very likely, the knife that it's a part of. If that happens, I'm honestly fine with it. Too muchforce was applied and the knife broke. That's not the manufacturer's fault and will happen to literally anything.

What I don't accept is lock slip failures. It's the opposite way the lock should fail and it often leaves you with a knife that has a faulty mechanism and no outward signs of distress.
 
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