Be careful what you put in your pocket - Knife opened and cut me

NMpops said:
That said I notice the knife in question is set up for TIP Down carry.
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- The only knife I've had partially deploy in my pocket was a tip down knife (Benchmade Aphid). There is no way in hell that I would carry another tip down knife.

Apec said:
Tip down, or tip up? When carrying tip down, gravity and the detent are opposing any opening movement of the knife. When tip up, gravity favors the blade opening and the detent is the only thing providing resistance.
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- True, but if you carry a tip up knife against the seam of your pocket, it should be next to impossible for it to open up.
 
Apec said:
Tip down, or tip up? When carrying tip down, gravity and the detent are opposing any opening movement of the knife. When tip up, gravity favors the blade opening and the detent is the only thing providing resistance.
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To be clear, the particular blade that caused this was tip down. Benchwarmer was making the point that carrying the knife against the seam of the pocket as a physical barrier to opening works better for tip up knives. Whether this is better for injury prevention or not on the population level is beyond the scope of this thread. In this case, the loose detent appears to have been the primary factor contributing to injury. I'm not sure if tip down contributed or if it is merely a contextual factor.
 
In this case, I would have carried it because I was not aware of the weak detent. As it is, I would not carry this blade or one with a similar strength detent in any clip position. However, I would be ok carrying in a sheath or using it like a fixed blade in a controlled setting for a clear purpose. If one of the tip up knives failed the shakeout test, I would try to fix it, ask the manufacturer to fix it, or discontinue use entirely. The "against the seams" method is a secondary safety precaution whereas the mechanical operation of the folding knife itself is a primary safety mechanism. Awareness is more important than both. In my opinion, all three need to be working in order for optimal safety. In this example, carrying against the seam with the tip down blade could not prevent an injury in the absence of a strong detent and good awareness. Likely, tip up would only have delayed injury since there is always room for error. Provided I can avoid secondary infection, I am ok with the outcome of increased awareness.
 
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Thanks Vayu.
I think it was a combination of the two. If the detent was stronger the blade may not have swung out. With it being tip down it had the space to actually swing out enough to poke you.

Interesting question singularity and here's my take.

I keep my Emersons a little on the loose side. They still have rock solid lock up with no blade play but I can flick the knife open with ease and with enough force I can shake the blade out. From the video I would say it takes a bit more force than Vayu was using but they are two different knives and we're two different people. Still, it can shake out.
When I first got it I would wear it in the pocket of my athletic shorts while running. Once or twice I noticed the blade would creep out a little bit, maybe about half an inch or so. Not cool. If I run with an Emerson on me now I'll put it in my waistband on my right hip. No movement since. I think the contributing factors of the blade swinging out while being tip down were the very loose and unsupportive nature of athletic shorts, the constant front to back swinging of the knife in my pocket, and also the knife being slightly looser.

I've carried, ran, and worked with my Emersons in more durable pants and have never seen this happen again but then again I've ran with tip up knives with stronger detents and didn't experience any blade swing.

Either way, if I carry a folder while running it goes it the waistband. Even if it doesn't open it is quite annoying to have it swing back and forth.
 
Nice knife. I like the grind and geometry of the Al Mar a little better though.

I'd never pocket a knife with a loose detent.
 
In all fairness to Japanese Knives Direct and Haruo Seutake, in all other respects the knife is excellent. Upon notification of the issue, JKD immediately offered to pay shipping back to their offices with a full refund. Still considering the offer - blades from all makers will have flaws, but you can't compete with good service.
 
KELAMA said:
Vayu- Thank God, it was only your finger...it could have been a lot worse down near the family jewels, bro!

How embarrassing that would have been, having to go to the ER & having your scrotum stitched up!
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Or the Big Johnson, itself! Oh man, that would really suck. Just think about about all of the itching you would have while the sutures were in place!

You were blessed that it was only your finger, Bro.
 
Glad to hear you are (more or less) ok, no one ever wants that to happen.

I find the tip up vs tip down discussion interesting though. I'm firmly in the tip down camp myself, I won't even consider owning a knife that is tip up only. I carry right rear pocket, against the outside seam. This way the detent and gravity are in favor of it staying closed, as well as the seam keeping it closed. And additionally, the other nice thing about RR carry is that when you sit, the bending forces aren't forcing a blade near any important body parts, while front carry when you sit the angle between your legs and abdomen keeps getting smaller, increasing the risk of a bad injury imo.

That's just my two cents though, to each his own :).
 
tokerblue said:
- The only knife I've had partially deploy in my pocket was a tip down knife (Benchmade Aphid). There is no way in hell that I would carry another tip down knife.


- True, but if you carry a tip up knife against the seam of your pocket, it should be next to impossible for it to open up.
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If it shifts during your day while moving about, there may be enough room to expose the tip. And it'll be a bad day if you decide to reach into your pocket for something when the knife is partially open.

But anyhow, the takeaway from all this is, don't carry an unsafe/improperly maintained knife, because neither carry method will be safe in that instance.
 
Apec said:
If it shifts during your day while moving about, there may be enough room to expose the tip. And it'll be a bad day if you decide to reach into your pocket for something when the knife is partially open.

But anyhow, the takeaway from all this is, don't carry an unsafe/improperly maintained knife, because neither carry method will be safe in that instance.
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Well said.
 
That is one rock solid 'nut. But I carry it in a suede pouch anyway. I don't like the idea of unadulterated slipjoints out on the town.
 
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Had a similar occurrence with one the cheap Boker Kalashnikov automatics. I was on a short vacation with my wife and another couple in Gatlinburg, Tennessee and we were shopping. We ate lunch and walked out to our vehicles to go back to our motel and I reached into my right pocket and felt (too late) the edge of the blade as my finger ran down it. I pulled it out quickly and clasped it without even looking at it, looked at my buddy (a knife nut also, and knew I was carrying an automatic) and said, "Well I just messed up-lets go get the first aid-kit." He knew immediately what had happened and we got the Band-Aids out... It WAS NOT nearly as bad as it could have been-it made a long but shallow cut with only a little bleeding. Believe it or not, that unintentional deployment wasn't the last time I carried it-it took another a few months later before I learned my lesson!
 
Apec said:
If it shifts during your day while moving about, there may be enough room to expose the tip. And it'll be a bad day if you decide to reach into your pocket for something when the knife is partially open.

But anyhow, the takeaway from all this is, don't carry an unsafe/improperly maintained knife, because neither carry method will be safe in that instance.
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Agreed. I always make sure my pocket clips are tight, the pivot is tight and the blade is against the seam. With the amount of things people carry in their pocket, extra precaution is always good.
 
I put them in a belt sheath.......then its no issue at all.....

To much potential for what you have described. No way do I even want to think about it.


Yo
 
I've had this happen with a Benchmade Dejavoo, lovely knife but with a very weak detent. Luckily, I didn't cut myself, although I could feel the tip of the blade on my leg.

I tend to favour tip down folders both because of comfort and safety.

When I know my day will involve a lot of physical activity, I'll choose a knife that I can carry in a sheath (because I also fear losing something that's held only by a pocket clip). Back when I was training horses and doing a lot of riding over rough terrain (and occasionally hitting the ground), I carried a fixed blade sheepfoot knife in a very tough sheath (there's a reason why traditional knife sheaths in my country are made of metal or leather with metal tips!).
 
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