Bear Bangers

[dartanyon]

I'm soo relieved that the only bear bangers i'll experience will be rolling off the roof of my tent in the middle of the night ... ( sometimes called dropbears )

 

[RedbeAR15]

I wonder what effect, if any, repeated exposure to bear bangers actually has on a bear. Fool me once...

 

[RancidSumo]

Well, down here in the deep South, you'd have a hard time finding anyone who has a problem with guns, BUT the penalties may not be as stiff as they are for you Canadians but we still do have penalties. I also don't feel it is worth it. The contact I've had with Rangers and wildlife officials have given me too many examples of people winding up in hot water.

What penalties would those be? Most places you can carry in a National Forest and soon (or has it already come into law?) you will be able to carry concealed in most National Parks.

 

[tenkara]

What penalties would those be? Most places you can carry in a National Forest and soon (or has it already come into law?) you will be able to carry concealed in most National Parks.

It's a constantly evolving set of rules that shifts between federal and state laws. National forests have been pretty stable for firearms but National Parks are different story. Right now you can carry a firearm in a National Park but that is subject to change. If you go to state parks, you better make sure you know the rules that state and/or that park. Tennessee just passed a law allowing guns in parks if the local municipality decides not to opt out of the law. Other states---- who knows? Even reciprocal agreements for carrying firearms across state lines will depend entirely upon the state that you are entering. Even the supreme court is reentering the battle by evaluating the limitations states and cities are able to impose on carrying weapons. No such rules seem to exist for bear bangers. Thus, I shouldn't have to worry about carrying said tool for it's specific purpose.

UPDATE: I just went and checked to GSMNP official website. Gun carry in national parks doesn't kick in until February 22nd, 2010. That means that you would be subject to arrest if you are caught with a firearm inside the park at this time.

 

[Calebklyne]

Huh? I don't understand that. Is there some report on animal behaviour that supports that statement? I don't mean to be negative. It's just that the declaration you just made is very sweeping and conclusive. After having fired off a bear banger I think I must disagree. This isn't a black cat fire cracker. This is a soil your pants what the hell was that "Kaboom".

Bushman5, it's good to know that you made that video. It's what actually inspired me to order a sample set of bear bangers in the first place. In a hiker's/camping outfitter store near a national park, especially one that's sometimes frequented by Park Rangers, we can't consider condoning firearms. We do know that some people do ccw carry them but that leads to all sorts of logistical and philosophical considerations above and beyond simply having a gun in a pocket or pouch. As far as security goes, I have yet to have an issue where a firearm would have served any purpose beyond making someone else want to run and find a ranger and report the psycho hiker with the .40 cal. semi-auto. I've heard a few stories about things not working out and bad things happening, but even without comparing those stories to stories of bad things that happened in urban settings, the back country encounters with bad people are few and far between. Besides, who here would be totally comfortable knowing that the other guy, who might or might not be a complete numbskull, is packing a gun? How do I know the gun bearer isn't out to prove how tough he or she is? How do I know that they aren't inept or, worse, paranoid? Besides, I'm looking to defend myself sensibly and in a lightweight manner against an increase in bear activity on my stomping grounds. I can go on about all of these issues, but I'd like to hear from someone who is probably wiser than I am.

what i said was information given to me by a park ranger who has 7-8 encounters with bears every year however we were talking about grizzlies so i would imagine a black bear would not hold its ground as quickly

 

[coyotebc]

bear bangers are real fun at Halloween.
I think too many people on this site suffer from bearanoya.

 

[RedbeAR15]

I'm thinking they should rename those to Tourist Bangers No disrespect intended here guys -

 

[TXscout]

Hope they work out for you--

I'm going to stick with my .45-70 guide gun, 12GA, or .44, to prevent a follow up thread to this one, titled: "Bear Bang'ee Checkin' In" or "Yikes--I've been bear-banged"

 

[Bushman5]

again, different laws and freedoms where you live. Canada has different laws and freedoms in regards to firearms carry on Crown land, vs Provincial parks and municipal parks.

if i was able to, i WOULD carry a heavy magnum load firearm.

 

[skammer]

I think too many people on this site suffer from bearanoya.

I will call you next time I do a body parts recovery

Skam

 

[k_estela]

Keep this thread on topic boys. No talk of Politics/Laws or its done.

 

[coyotebc]

I will call you next time I do a body parts recovery

Skam

How many times have you recovered the remains of people killed by bears?
I've lived my whole life in bear area, and spent many hours in the woods, both armed and unarmed. Never had to shoot a bear, and I only know 1 person that did. That person got between a sow and cub.

Not saying there isn't a danger, only that it seems to be way overstated by many on this site.
Some make it sound as if bears are all over just waiting to eat us, thats just not the case

 

[mckrob]

I think too many people on this site suffer from bearanoya.

You only need to be involved, even remotely, in one fatality before you start to take bear safety seriously (see June 14, 1992 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America).

While I wasn't on this job, I know the guy who was the crew chief on this job, who was also the guy that discovered the body, and I witnessed how much it effected him. This incident prompted a corporate change in safety policy that found all of us carrying shotguns whenever working in the field. There were no further fatalities after this policy was adopted (this company had a string of bad luck, three bear related fatalities in a span of about 12 years).

When I teach bear safety I have the Ontario Ministry of Labour report on this attack and I use it frequently as an example of what can happen, and that complacency around black bears can be fatal.

Back to the question at hand. I have had very good luck with Tru bangers and screamer shells, they are something that we always carry in the field in my profession (I just bought 8 boxes of them last week). Practice is required, I have overshot before and had a bear run towards me. I find the screamers can be more effective as they start making a very lound sound the moment they are fired.

Individual bears will get used to the sound and eventually the bang will not even make the bear flinch, this is when I will typically bring out the 12ga with plastic sabots, these are non lethal and I have found them to be VERY effecitve, more so than bangers or spray. Killing a bear is always a last resort.

One thing to be careful of, there are both rimfire and centrefire models of Tru flares and launchers. Be careful, I have received mixed shipments of centre and rimfire. You don't want your launcher pen set to centrefire when you have a rimfire flare (I found this out the hard way). It will not fire! Some models of the launchers can be dissassembled and the pin assembly turned around to change from rimfire to centrefire and vise-versa. Visually, the easiest way to tell the flare itself apart is to inspect the primer, the "acorn" logo is rimfire and no logo is centrefire.

 

[mckrob]

I also have a handgun type 15mm launcher,while not quite as practical in the field (you must load blanks and flares separate) I will typically keep it loaded in camp next to the shotgun. These are also much cheaper than the Tru flares.

flares:
http://margosupplies.com/public/canadian1/scare/pyro_launchers/pyro.htm

launchers:
http://margosupplies.com/public/canadian1/scare/pyro_and_launcher_main.htm

 

[coyotebc]

You only need to be involved, even remotely, in one fatality before you start to take bear safety seriously (see June 14, 1992 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America).

While I wasn't on this job, I know the guy who was the crew chief on this job, who was also the guy that discovered the body, and I witnessed how much it effected him. This incident prompted a corporate change in safety policy that found all of us carrying shotguns whenever working in the field. There were no further fatalities after this policy was adopted (this company had a string of bad luck, three bear related fatalities in a span of about 12 years).

When I teach bear safety I have the Ontario Ministry of Labour report on this attack and I use it frequently as an example of what can happen, and that complacency around black bears can be fatal.

Back to the question at hand. I have had very good luck with Tru bangers and screamer shells, they are something that we always carry in the field in my profession (I just bought 8 boxes of them last week). Practice is required, I have overshot before and had a bear run towards me. I find the screamers can be more effective as they start making a very lound sound the moment they are fired.

Individual bears will get used to the sound and eventually the bang will not even make the bear flinch, this is when I will typically bring out the 12ga with plastic sabots, these are non lethal and I have found them to be VERY effecitve, more so than bangers or spray. Killing a bear is always a last resort.

One thing to be careful of, there are both rimfire and centrefire models of Tru flares and launchers. Be careful, I have received mixed shipments of centre and rimfire. You don't want your launcher pen set to centrefire when you have a rimfire flare (I found this out the hard way). It will not fire! Some models of the launchers can be dissassembled and the pin assembly turned around to change from rimfire to centrefire and vise-versa. Visually, the easiest way to tell the flare itself apart is to inspect the primer, the "acorn" logo is rimfire and no logo is centrefire.

And where did I say I didn't take it seriously?
See my last post, it is a matter of risk, just like anything else.
If you are fishing in Alaska during the salmon run, the degree of risk is higher then hiking in most (probably all ) of the state or national parks in the lower 48 states.
Bear bangers work, as does pepper spray, in many studies (some of which have been linked to from this sub-forum) shows that firearms are no more effective then pepper spray at protecting yourself.

FOR MOST of the people that have posted on this thread that live in the lower 48 states the risk is extremely low, and their steadfast refusal of acknowledging that other methods can be effective shows a paranoya about bears.

If you are so paranoid about bear attacks that you feel it necessary to break the law and carry a firearm in areas that they are not permitted, that is your choice. However I fail to see how you can call someone that carries bear bangers complacent.

 

[skammer]

How many times have you recovered the remains of people killed by bears?
I've lived my whole life in bear area, and spent many hours in the woods, both armed and unarmed. Never had to shoot a bear, and I only know 1 person that did. That person got between a sow and cub.

Not saying there isn't a danger, only that it seems to be way overstated by many on this site.
Some make it sound as if bears are all over just waiting to eat us, thats just not the case

I recovered 2 different bodies/parts from separate maulings/feedings. What was left is life changing to see. Both located far into the mountains.

A 3rd was a fatal mauling, I was part of the medical unit first on scene.

All 3 events were people who didn't think "bears are all over just waiting to eat us".

Of course they are not everywhere but I can tell you the more time you spend in deep bear country the more you make contact with them. In my experience, these "violent" maulings are not within a few miles of civilization but in the outback. Day hikers/campers walking the dog on trails are safer than those who explore 20 miles or more into the ranges. Bears in campgrounds, known trails etc.. are used to being around people and are less agressive.

To dismiss it as simple paranoia or overstated is plain wrong.

One doesn't need to be paranoid but one should be aware and prepared for the real possibility.

Skam

 

[tenkara]

So, it seems we have a couple of different secenario/situations here that are all being responded to as if they are identical when they are not. Joe Shmoe the tourist who won't leave his beloved mini-van and his wife Mirna who thinks that bears are cuddly aren't really the same people one would normally meet deep into the back-country. Anecdotes about terrible situations are fine, but they aren't qualified. Who were these people? Did they have the misfortune to get between a cub and mother? Did they stumble on a male during mating season? What about food scent? Did they know that bears will chase after the toothpaste "Crest" like it was crack? Did they sleep where they cooked? How did they store their food? Details details. I for one don't believe that bears are quite the menace that some of us believe them to be (of course, I don't know a thing about grizzlies).

I am not the type of person that would forgo sensible precautions in bear territory. I do know how to behave in most bear encounters. I also know that, sometimes, things are going to go wrong no matter how well prepared I may be. I go into the woods, whether it's the patch of land out behind my house or the Smoky Mountains, without any knowledge of what may await me. What to do? Guns are not always an option if I want to obey the law. Guns are not always practical as I shift between urban and country settings. Nor are guns practical for all of the activities I like to engage in. Have you every tried to carry a gun that is capable of putting down a bear when you are floating class 5 whitewater? It's sometimes difficult to even keep track of my hat and camera!

So what do I do? I chose to explore an alternative method that is lightweight and has hard evidence that it works. It may not be your choice, but I didn't denigrate you choice and make comments about blowing your foot off or shooting your hiking partner. I stated very clearly that I was looking for an alternative

I am very thankful for those that have had actual experience with bear bangers. Your descriptions of them assure me that, while it may not offer as comprehensive a level of protection as a 12 gauge, bear bangers can be used successfully for their intended pupose.

For those that choose to carry firearms whether it is legal or not---- whatever floats your boat.