I do most of my hiking in North, GA and have had a few black bear encounters. Now, I was taught that black bear are usually very timid animals and run at the sight of a human or they keep a relatively safe distance from humans if not threatened. Lately I have been reading stories on the net (I know you can't believe everything you read on the net) and hearing in various places that black bear are getting more aggressive towards humans due to the late and warmer fall seasons that we have been having which sometimes causes a shortage of food for bears. Have anyone heard likewise? I haven't heard of any attacks in GA lately, but heard that there were a few bear attacks in North Carolina and the reason above is what they contribute the attack to. What do you guys think about the matter? Is there such a thing now or will there not be in the future as keeping a safe distance from bear? What are some measures that we can take to protect ourselves from attacks? I ask the last question for those who don't own guns, don't want to own a gun or can't afford a gun.
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Bear habits
- Thread starter cgusek111
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when I'm in the woods bears are the least of my concerns....you have a better chance of being struck by lightening than being attacked by a bear.....bear spray is a good thing to have ,for 2 legged as well as 4 legged threats..
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I have to say I am not fully sure about the warmer fall thing. The logic behind it makes some sense. We must have had warm seasons in the past, I wonder if there is any correlation between increased bear attacks and warm weather in previous years.
I hope that people are not attributing the increased bear attacks with warm weather and thus global warming. Hopefully people don't say global warming will screw us over in our relationship with bears. Now don't get me wrong, I 100% believe in global warming, however, from a scientific point of view, global warming is only increasing the average temperature of the earth by a degree over a long period of time. Not enough to make a bear notice. Ok sorry about my rant on global warming, I'm getting a little of topic. My point is just that if the logic of warm weather is true, we may not have a problem with increased bear attacks next season (if the weather is colder).
Again, if this logic is true, the safety distance you must mantain from bears may vary depending on climate. For people who do not have the means to carry a gun, they should carry pepper spray or at least know bear safety. The main reason for attacks is usually a bear is startled or people get too near cubs. So if you can avoid doing these two things, you increase your chances of not having a bad encounter with a bear. There are many other things you can do like not sleeping with food in your tent. I am not an expert in this so ask other people here or just google bear safety.
I hope that people are not attributing the increased bear attacks with warm weather and thus global warming. Hopefully people don't say global warming will screw us over in our relationship with bears. Now don't get me wrong, I 100% believe in global warming, however, from a scientific point of view, global warming is only increasing the average temperature of the earth by a degree over a long period of time. Not enough to make a bear notice. Ok sorry about my rant on global warming, I'm getting a little of topic. My point is just that if the logic of warm weather is true, we may not have a problem with increased bear attacks next season (if the weather is colder).
Again, if this logic is true, the safety distance you must mantain from bears may vary depending on climate. For people who do not have the means to carry a gun, they should carry pepper spray or at least know bear safety. The main reason for attacks is usually a bear is startled or people get too near cubs. So if you can avoid doing these two things, you increase your chances of not having a bad encounter with a bear. There are many other things you can do like not sleeping with food in your tent. I am not an expert in this so ask other people here or just google bear safety.
I'm no bear expert, but I like to read bear stories. Seems to me like the further north you go, the bigger and more aggressive the bears get. I'm thinking of black bears now. Our Florida black bears are nearly always pretty harmless, unless you're a bee keeper with hives set out in the woods somewhere a bear can get to. The tupelo honey producers near Smith Creek run into trouble like this sometimes. I think our Florida bears are very handsome animals, at least when they are in good condition. I would never want to harm one unless I felt threatened. I'm too old to want to kill much any more.
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Many of the 'attacks ' involve bears who are used to people and associate people with food !! I seems almost impossible to teach people not to feed bears. Once they have been fed they lose their fear of people .One of the attacks in PA this year [and this is fairly common] was a bear entering a tent . The kid had violated the rules about food in the tent .A bear has many times better sense of smell than a dog so if there's food around he will smell it !! A dog is a good first line warning/defense against bears. Then pepper spray ,then a firearm. Prevention is easier -all food and cooking should be done at least 50 yds from tents !! The PA Game commision has a wonderful informative video about bears available.PA has at least 10,000 bears , some of them very large , ~800 lbs !!!
Im a fan of bear spray too, its cheap and easily available. I carry it in my messenger bag when I go hunting or hiking. A month ago, I was up at a friends hunting cabing for pre-season scouting and I was poking around in the woods near his cabin for some fire wood when I hear this galloping coming from behind me, I turn around and three huge dogs are tearing along at me. Well I yelled real loud and that stopped them in their tracks but they didnt leave, they're kicking up leaves and growling so I hosed with the bear spray. One blast and all three took off.
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blackbears are lazy, and are primarily scavengers, it's not that had to convince one that you aren't food. I'd rather a stout walking stick and my khuk over spray. remembering that OC smells like pepper, which smells like food, so if you get any on you, other bears will be coming. Black bears have relatively poor hearing and eye sight, so I when I'm teaching I put it like this, how do you feel when something surprises you, and you don't know what it is? Most kids say "scared" so if you scare the bear and it "jumps" just like when you sneak up on your friend, except the bear might take a swing at you, as you are a threat to it, so make noise, let it know you are coming, and let it have time to get out of the way. I've worked/ played in many places (including going to bible camp when I was little and having a black try to knock down the door) and the only time's I've heard of a black-bear attack, it was the human's fault. when I camp, I let other people carry the spray, flares, whatever makes them feel better. In the case of a black bear attack, from my reading, it's the aggressiveness of the counter attack that decides, I'd rather have aggression on my side, and a big knife makes me feel better than a can of OC. Bottom line, people are not very smart, so when you look at attacks, don't look as much at the animals behavior, as where the people screwed up, or could have done things differently. not trying to start a pro-con debate of OC, that's been done, just saying how I operate, from growing up with critters that think I'm food, and need to be reminded otherwise
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In all my encounters with black bears, they didn't attack, but neither did they flee from me. They just kind of ignored me, or kept an eye on me. The only way to get rid of them was to pelt them with something, and they took off.
I don't think you read the first post. The blokes asking for options that don't involve a gun. For people who don't want to own or who can't afford a gun.
Seriously black bear are no threath if you make them aware of your presence( whistle while you walk, knock on trees once an awhile, throw a burp or a big fart, ect...). You should enjoy your time in the woods instead of worrying about urban legends...cheers!!!
We had the cancellation of the spring bear hunt in Ontario. Bears are more numerous now. To complicate the problem excessive logging has reduced healthy forests to mear wastelands and animal unfriendly single species tree farms leaving little for anything to eat.
Hungry bears then move in to towns and rural homes. They are becoming accustomed to the fact that where there are people there is easy food from garbage to gardens. They now associate smoke with human activity and that equals food.
In Canada few people can get permits to carry handguns. The bears have learned this and know that human meat is easy to kill and tastes very good. Last year probably more people 'disapeared' (translate that into consumed as bear food) in forested areas than were shot as vicitms of crime, thus never making it into the news. I can think of two tree planters, and several other misterious human disapearances just in the last year here in Northwestern Ontario.
As bears learn, and increase in numbers, together with loss of habitat, together with tightening gun control, fatal bear encounters will only increase.
Hungry bears then move in to towns and rural homes. They are becoming accustomed to the fact that where there are people there is easy food from garbage to gardens. They now associate smoke with human activity and that equals food.
In Canada few people can get permits to carry handguns. The bears have learned this and know that human meat is easy to kill and tastes very good. Last year probably more people 'disapeared' (translate that into consumed as bear food) in forested areas than were shot as vicitms of crime, thus never making it into the news. I can think of two tree planters, and several other misterious human disapearances just in the last year here in Northwestern Ontario.
As bears learn, and increase in numbers, together with loss of habitat, together with tightening gun control, fatal bear encounters will only increase.
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again I go back to what the PEOPLE were doing, tree planters can if they want get a permit to carry a handgun, it's hard but such permits are available to any forestry worker who is licensed. Crew foremans should be armed, as well as cooks, but some people think that the little electric fence around the mess tent is enough. but for the average person, basic precautions like food hangs are all thats needed.
Nemoaz, black bear = savager, yes they eat anything, but they don't like to work for it, if it was hungry enough to still try to eat me while I'm poking little holes in it's face with my knife, it's hungry enough not to notice you punching big holes in it, at least until its on top of you, from what I know of scavengers, they hunt like everything else, no warning. Equally as screwed, there's darwin for ya. the only time I'd carry would be in places that I know have problem bears, or standard bear deterrent methods (loud noises, food denial) haven't worked. or when it would be likley to have to eliminate said problem bear. Or if the situation included being responsible for other people or children, as they many be the target of an attack (provoked or not) and 12gua slugs would be a good tool to use in that situation.
Bufford, I'm pretty sure that "gun control" in canada is loosening, the RCMP hate the new system, and an officer has already been killed because of the registry (the guy wasn't supposed to have guns, so they knocked and announced, when they should have kicked and flashbanged) I won't disagree that habitat loss plays a part, but I think that it is more stupid people encroaching on that habitat that causes the fatal encounters. Grizzlies have learned in some places that gunshots equal food, but the rate of attack hasn't gone up, because people adapt to protect themselves. but we are getting off topic.
Nemoaz, black bear = savager, yes they eat anything, but they don't like to work for it, if it was hungry enough to still try to eat me while I'm poking little holes in it's face with my knife, it's hungry enough not to notice you punching big holes in it, at least until its on top of you, from what I know of scavengers, they hunt like everything else, no warning. Equally as screwed, there's darwin for ya. the only time I'd carry would be in places that I know have problem bears, or standard bear deterrent methods (loud noises, food denial) haven't worked. or when it would be likley to have to eliminate said problem bear. Or if the situation included being responsible for other people or children, as they many be the target of an attack (provoked or not) and 12gua slugs would be a good tool to use in that situation.
Bufford, I'm pretty sure that "gun control" in canada is loosening, the RCMP hate the new system, and an officer has already been killed because of the registry (the guy wasn't supposed to have guns, so they knocked and announced, when they should have kicked and flashbanged) I won't disagree that habitat loss plays a part, but I think that it is more stupid people encroaching on that habitat that causes the fatal encounters. Grizzlies have learned in some places that gunshots equal food, but the rate of attack hasn't gone up, because people adapt to protect themselves. but we are getting off topic.
The quarterly printed issue of BackPackingLight issue number 8 was largely about bear encounters. It is currently available on line - but to read the articles you either have to be a subscriber to the website ( which I am ) or pay for individual downloads of each seperate article if you are a non-subscriber. The pdf Grizzley Bear Deterants article is perhaps the only one worth the price to purchase for download if you are a non subscriber.
However, all is not lost. Below is a link to the online issue 8 and at the bottom of the page are links to other related resources - which are free to read and provide some useful information.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/issue8.html?id=qmt6PpIM:216.12.108.235
BTW - I registered on this forum about 18 months ago after a friend gave me a Kurkuri as a gift to read the post but this is my first post to the fourm. I live in W.V. Over the past few weeks I have heard the same information twice on the radio stating that Kanawha, Boone , Fayette and Raleigh counties here are the most productive black bear ares in the world. It has been ten years or so since there were any bears living on hills within sight of my home. A mother and cub were hit on the highway and a month or two later a male was also hit on the highway and severely injured and was put down by a state trooper.
But there are bears routinely living on a mountain about 3 miles down the road. With an 11 year old son who likes to get out into the woods there is a concern about him having an encounter. I've only had one encounter in my life and that was 14 or so years ago. I had ridden my motorcycle to Blackwater Falls state park. Tent camped over night and was going to walk round the road to the park lodge for breakfast. Decided it was a longer walk than I remembered and deciced to walk back to camp and ride round to the lodge.
As I walked back I found myself facing a blackbear walking toward me about 50 yds ahead of me. I wasn't sure what I ought to do. As I was trying to make a decision a car came down the highway from behind the bear and he went off into the woods down the hill. Later in the day I stopped off at the Cranberry Visitor center and asked the rangers what I ought to have done and was basically told that mostly there were no worries , just make some noise in a non-threating manner to make the bear aware I was there while still at a safe distance and they would run off. The only caution was to avoid being between a mother and cubs. So I think mostly it is not to much to worry about as long as you don't come into close quarters that is a surprise to both of you.
However, that being said . I also have a coworker who was camping in the same park in Tenn. several years ago when a young woman was killed and partically eaten by a black bear. Her husband had gone fishing and when he returned to camp he couldn't find her. Later spotted her at the bottom of a valley being eaten. Several campers threw rocks to try drive the bear away with no effect. ( I've read stories of long distance hikers who have mentioned that out on the trail the rules are who ever possess the food owns the food and once you manage to let the bear get your food bag he will point out the rule to you and keep your food - though even then mostly ignore you while he eats the contents of the food bag ) Anyway, my friend said once the word got around about the fatal attack most folks packed up and ended their vacations early and left the park.
Additionally there was a yound , I think 10 year old, boy dragged from his tent and killed out west earlier this year that was in the news. What I don't recall hearing on the news was the information I found on a hiking/backpacking web site from some folks who were from the area and knew the camp where there boy was killed. What they related was that the park in posted with many signs cautioning you to keep your camp clean and no food in tents. Yet the area where this family had camped had garbage bags setting on the ground outside the tents and not quickly removed to bear proof desposal boxes.
On a motorcycle trip up in Vermont years ago I camped out at a park there which was my first time to ever camp in a park where they gave you bear warnings when you registered for a tent site. When I checked in they cautioned you to put all trash in the bear proof boxes and to not have food in your tent and to not wear clothes into your tent that you had worn while cooking your evening meal.
So I think there's always that chance of being that one in a thousand. But mostly your safe as long as you and the bruin don't surprise one another in close quarters and you follow common sense.
Anyway, hope the links from the backpackinglight web site offers some useful info.
best regards,
David
However, all is not lost. Below is a link to the online issue 8 and at the bottom of the page are links to other related resources - which are free to read and provide some useful information.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/issue8.html?id=qmt6PpIM:216.12.108.235
BTW - I registered on this forum about 18 months ago after a friend gave me a Kurkuri as a gift to read the post but this is my first post to the fourm. I live in W.V. Over the past few weeks I have heard the same information twice on the radio stating that Kanawha, Boone , Fayette and Raleigh counties here are the most productive black bear ares in the world. It has been ten years or so since there were any bears living on hills within sight of my home. A mother and cub were hit on the highway and a month or two later a male was also hit on the highway and severely injured and was put down by a state trooper.
But there are bears routinely living on a mountain about 3 miles down the road. With an 11 year old son who likes to get out into the woods there is a concern about him having an encounter. I've only had one encounter in my life and that was 14 or so years ago. I had ridden my motorcycle to Blackwater Falls state park. Tent camped over night and was going to walk round the road to the park lodge for breakfast. Decided it was a longer walk than I remembered and deciced to walk back to camp and ride round to the lodge.
As I walked back I found myself facing a blackbear walking toward me about 50 yds ahead of me. I wasn't sure what I ought to do. As I was trying to make a decision a car came down the highway from behind the bear and he went off into the woods down the hill. Later in the day I stopped off at the Cranberry Visitor center and asked the rangers what I ought to have done and was basically told that mostly there were no worries , just make some noise in a non-threating manner to make the bear aware I was there while still at a safe distance and they would run off. The only caution was to avoid being between a mother and cubs. So I think mostly it is not to much to worry about as long as you don't come into close quarters that is a surprise to both of you.
However, that being said . I also have a coworker who was camping in the same park in Tenn. several years ago when a young woman was killed and partically eaten by a black bear. Her husband had gone fishing and when he returned to camp he couldn't find her. Later spotted her at the bottom of a valley being eaten. Several campers threw rocks to try drive the bear away with no effect. ( I've read stories of long distance hikers who have mentioned that out on the trail the rules are who ever possess the food owns the food and once you manage to let the bear get your food bag he will point out the rule to you and keep your food - though even then mostly ignore you while he eats the contents of the food bag ) Anyway, my friend said once the word got around about the fatal attack most folks packed up and ended their vacations early and left the park.
Additionally there was a yound , I think 10 year old, boy dragged from his tent and killed out west earlier this year that was in the news. What I don't recall hearing on the news was the information I found on a hiking/backpacking web site from some folks who were from the area and knew the camp where there boy was killed. What they related was that the park in posted with many signs cautioning you to keep your camp clean and no food in tents. Yet the area where this family had camped had garbage bags setting on the ground outside the tents and not quickly removed to bear proof desposal boxes.
On a motorcycle trip up in Vermont years ago I camped out at a park there which was my first time to ever camp in a park where they gave you bear warnings when you registered for a tent site. When I checked in they cautioned you to put all trash in the bear proof boxes and to not have food in your tent and to not wear clothes into your tent that you had worn while cooking your evening meal.
So I think there's always that chance of being that one in a thousand. But mostly your safe as long as you and the bruin don't surprise one another in close quarters and you follow common sense.
Anyway, hope the links from the backpackinglight web site offers some useful info.
best regards,
David
Firearms arent an option for a lot of people. I dunno about the states, but in canada if youre caught in the woods with a rifle and no hunting tags youre in a world of shit.
p.s. why put emphasis on omnivore?
The laws in the states vary widely and are at least somewhat confusing. In a state park in Texas, I read rules posted that said you couldn't possess a loaded pistol.. but it didn't specifically say an unloaded one, with ammo in mag but mag not in pistol, was okay. I was hesitant to ask the rangers about it for the same reasons I'm hesitant to ask cops about local gun laws - they aren't the authority on the laws, and I've read plenty of first-hand stories where the LEO got it wrong. Last thing I want is a park ranger hauling me in because he/she *thinks* I've broken a law.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs when I'm more afraid of what will happen to me if I'm caught with a gun than what will happen if I encounter a bear or mountain lion in Big Bend, or a two-legged predator, and don't have a gun. In Texas no less. Maybe I'm being too paranoid.
This is just plain not true. Predator defense is a totally legitimate reason for having a long gun in the woods. For that matter, so is target practice. You might get hassled by a CO, but as long as you don't actually have any dead things with you, you can't be charged.
That said, I did my CORE (Conservation and Outdoor Recreation Education) course mostly to smooth over the situation you describe, and subsequently decided after the course that hunting sounded like fun.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2007
- Messages
- 822
I'm in So. Calif., and am in the local mountains or Sierras frequently. We have had at least three attacks in the local mountains that I can recall, one just this summer (kid dragged from his tent). I frequently see bears now even during daylight, so this is a serious consideration for me!
When bears are roaming around, because of chance encounters, keeping your distance isn't really an option. I have come around a blind corner in a trail, and been face to face with a bear several times.
Peper spray is better than nothing at all. Making noise and a ruckus has always worked for me, but I back that up with a firearm. Even in Calif. (even if you don't have a CCW), it is absolutely legal to have a loaded firearm in your campsite...something that most people are unaware of.
When bears are roaming around, because of chance encounters, keeping your distance isn't really an option. I have come around a blind corner in a trail, and been face to face with a bear several times.
Peper spray is better than nothing at all. Making noise and a ruckus has always worked for me, but I back that up with a firearm. Even in Calif. (even if you don't have a CCW), it is absolutely legal to have a loaded firearm in your campsite...something that most people are unaware of.
