Bear & Son Knives

Codger_64 said:
Once again I think we should remind ourselves about a factor that has always been so in the U.S. Cutlery industry, and likely also worldwide. That of pricepoints. Cutleries always have catered to specific markets, some attempting to make knives in every pricepoint from cheap to finely tuned, well made and therefore expensive. One does not make and sell a cheap knife by paying talented cutlers, using best materials, building finely finished knives. The various markets are not and never have been the same in their expectations of price and the quality of knives they find acceptable. More than one cutlery has doomed itself by putting more production and warranty costs into a knife than it's targeted pricepoint can bear.

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I understand that a knife made and marketed at the lower pricepoint will not be a finely finished knife. I expect corners to be cut on cosmetics. I find it a little frustrating when I want a simple working knife, and they don't get the simple things right. Like a decent steel, and blades that open and shut properly.

I am happy with the one Utica stockman I own for just this reason. (though I know one is not a representative sample) It isn't real pretty, and has lots of gaps, but the steel is nice and the blades don't wobble. I bought it a few years ago, and I thought it was made in Utica, but who knows.
 
I bought a yellow handled Bear & Son sodbuster that was a Gander Mountain exclusive because it looked ok in the blister pack and it was made with 1095 steel. When I took it out of the package I noticed that there were a few gaps and the blade was off center but for the most part it was ok. Once I used it though I found that their steel is really soft. It sharpened up easy but would not hold much of an edge.
 
r8shell said:
I understand that a knife made and marketed at the lower pricepoint will not be a finely finished knife. I expect corners to be cut on cosmetics. I find it a little frustrating when I want a simple working knife, and they don't get the simple things right. Like a decent steel, and blades that open and shut properly.

I am happy with the one Utica stockman I own for just this reason. (though I know one is not a representative sample) It isn't real pretty, and has lots of gaps, but the steel is nice and the blades don't wobble. I bought it a few years ago, and I thought it was made in Utica, but who knows.
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ms3902 said:
I bought a yellow handled Bear & Son sodbuster that was a Gander Mountain exclusive because it looked ok in the blister pack and it was made with 1095 steel. When I took it out of the package I noticed that there were a few gaps and the blade was off center but for the most part it was ok. Once I used it though I found that their steel is really soft. It sharpened up easy but would not hold much of an edge.
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Quite often our expectations in quality do not jive with our selected pricepoint. It can very much be hit and miss. One solution is to buy on the secondary market, looking for deals on known entities, even knives made as SFOs for retailers and other busineses which attract little collector attention. One of my favorites is the Sears branded knives, often with upgraded details from the maker's own production offerings. And too, even the lowest pricepoint makers produce occasional sleepers, knives that astound in value.

And when I suggest secondary market, I am not talking strictly old used, damaged knives. Almost every pattern, brand and variant is still available in as-new still in the original packaging condition, quite often for less than the original MSRP, and certainly for less than a current market equivilant. I'll post a case in point in a bit.
 
It's not really necessary to compare the price points of expensive, high quality knives like GEC to the lower price points of knives like Utica. Price point on the Utica Barlow I bought was the same as or more than the price point on several Case knives I own. In both instances, US makers that have been around long enough to know how to make knives. But Case makes a consistently high quality knife for the same money or less than the poorly made Utica.
 
Lee48 said:
It's not really necessary to compare the price points of expensive, high quality knives like GEC to the lower price points of knives like Utica. Price point on the Utica Barlow I bought was the same as or more than the price point on several Case knives I own. In both instances, US makers that have been around long enough to know how to make knives. But Case makes a consistently high quality knife for the same money or less than the poorly made Utica.
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And in that case perhaps one should look at examples previously made where the expected quality is apparent, rather than new primary market knives. Holding a pricepoint in an everchanging economy and market is a difficult thing to do. One has to begin cutting somewhere. Look for examples made earlier when quality was as expected. I understand well the wish to buy "new" and also to support a current cutlery. But if their current offerings in the pricepoint don't meet expectations, move up in pricepoint, or to an alternative maker in the same pricepoint, or to an imported model, or one from years past. An amazing number are still out there preserved as-new waiting to be discovered. And it is a fun pastime.
 
Alrighty. As I said, I don't own and Bear & Son knives or Bear MGC knives but I do know that ownership and management has changed hands several times over the years. Likely as not, at some points, patterns and quality have evolved over time from the beginning until today. I have seen a couple of examples of SFO knives made by them over the years and they weren't top shelf, but not horrible. The were/are popular as a SFO provider because they are often low bidder on jobs and willing to come up with the tooling to do special materials, marks and patterns.

My example is a bit different. I like a particular brand no longer made (10 years gone now), but still plentiful enough that my favorite patterns can still be found. One of those is a slim premium stockman, most often my daily companion for more than a quarter century.

Here is a case full of them, 24 shown with more inside the storage compartment.

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I like them for a variety of reasons I won't go into just now, but I enjoy collecting them, from the oldest, serial # 06997 made in the first or second year of production, 1966-67...

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To the last production just before they closed at the end of July in 2004, a 897UHS dual shield 100th anniversary edition, very few made before closing...

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They were even made as SFO's for groups and companies. Here is one, found in a pawn shop marked "MM897" which I bought cheap. It was made for Cotter/True Value Hardware...

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And they were also made for Sears Roebuck & Co. as their #9552 Craftsman...

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and as an anniversary commemorative for Keen Kutter knives...

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So they are still available in the same high quality I expect, many years after being produced. And they are being repro'd overseas by the current trademark owner.

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While I have no idea of the quality of those, they are genuinely low pricepoint. But back in '05 I was having conversations with a grandson of the founders of Colonial and he sent me their version to examine. It isn't equal to the original Schrde-Walden and Schrade in quality, but not bad.

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Unfortunately the company was still evolving in ownership and that particular knife pattern was short-lived.

So the point is that Bear & Son/Bear MGC may have had some higher quality knives made there at some point, maybe even now, and if not, then high quality low to mid pricepoint knives, like Barlows, are still available in every condition from used to new in the box for low price-point costs, particularly if you search out SFOs without the maker's name on them.
 
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My experience echoes that of many here. My Bear yellow delrin sodbuster jr came with a huge gap between the spring and liner meaning the blade didn't lock up right. I ended up squeezing it in a vice so that now when open the spring at least contacts the back of the blade. It sits at the bottom of the tool box and gets used occasionally for garden chores. On the plus side the steel performs quite well (it has CS stamped on the blade but no sign of patina yet so makes me wonder if they made a mistake).

Matt
 
I think it's not just price point that drives the quality: company perspective, employee training and pay, play into this. If a company stays on top of things, repairing and upgrading equipment as needed, mfg methodologies, reviewing business model, etc, they can provide a decent product for a low price, but they need to be shrewd. Look at the old shell handled Arm and Hammer, then Imperial knives. I have an A&H from the 40's that probably sold for .75 cents or less. It is good carbon steel, strong springs, and soooo thin behind the edge I swear Phil Wilson's grandad must have ground it (.007").
 
Lee48 said:
It's not really necessary to compare the price points of expensive, high quality knives like GEC to the lower price points of knives like Utica. Price point on the Utica Barlow I bought was the same as or more than the price point on several Case knives I own. In both instances, US makers that have been around long enough to know how to make knives. But Case makes a consistently high quality knife for the same money or less than the poorly made Utica.
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But they are not the same price. Best price I have seen for a Case Barlow is over $50. I bought a Utica Barlow for less than $30.

The only issue I had with my Utica Barlow is that the springs were weak. And my equally inexpensive Utica 4" stockman is a fair dinkum knife. I have no issues with it for the price I paid.

I believe it was settled in one of the other threads that Utica still makes some of their own knives.
 
I like Schrades too, except the damned swinden keys, which, truthfully, have only caused me trouble once.

It would be interesting to see where Old Timers would be priced today. They were bargains back in the day. My last purchase of one before the demise was for I want to say 7.99 for the pen (Minuteman?) in a blister pack at Target or maybe Walmart in the 90s.

There has been a load of inflation since then. And it very well may be that Schrade underpriced the OTs leading to their demise.
 
kanargeng, I'll have to disagree with you.

Knife prices vary, I know. Sometimes a lot. I've bought several recently and the prices I paid for a few new Case knives was in the same range as what I paid for the Utica Barlow--that is between $30 and $35. I can't say where I bought these from since they're not Blade Forum sponsoring dealers. Maybe they charge more for Uticas and less for Cases, I dunno. And I can't compare directly because Case's website doesn't currently show they make a standard level Barlow so none were available at the time I made my purchases. But this same seller has several Utica Kutmaster knives listed for sale in the same patterns as Case and the Utica prices are the same or, in some instances, higher than the same pattern from Case. I can't say all the Utica knives in all patterns are junk. But for the same price or less, I would bet the Case knives are better.
 
Comparing dealer retail prices can be deceptive as dealers will sometimes deeply discount manufacturers' MSRP based upon their own overhead costs, wholesale purchase levels and profit expectations, often greatly so if they use an item as a loss leader. And those vary greatly. One either has to look at the manufacturer's MSRP or their wholesale selling price which is usually not published to the public.
 
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I got this BEAR MGC USA used off ebay.
Only criticisms are the damascus has some splatty bits in it (so what?) and the stag scales are somewhat mismatched. The pictured side is beautiful the other side gorgeous but not the same level (think which girl out of ABBA did you like the best?)
Buck 110 for size comparison.Other than that its a great knife.
 
Thanks don -yes it looks great and works great . I've learned something about it- Alabammy Damascus you say.cheers.
 
okbohn said:
...[T]he owner/president of the company called me to tell me I didn't know anything about the knife industry and that their knives were exceptional.... I sold off my inventory to a distributor at a huge loss and will never even think of buying another.
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Wow - how conceited of him! That demonstrates what they know (or don't know) about the knife industry! Good for you for moving on, Derrick.

As an aside, I had one of their bali's years ago - it was total garbage, and I ended up giving it away.
 
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