beater/user/other classifications

R

redman2006

Joined
Nov 6, 2012
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I have been hanging around a while and am curious about what I do not really understand. Can someone explain these classes?

I have never thought of knives or other tools like this. I have always classified them as to what they do and used them all for their purpose. For example, a SAK is not going to be used like my izula which won't be used like my Scott Davidson camp knife, which won't be used like my leatherman, which won't be used like my vanguard skinner/hunter. But all these knives get used, get dirty, get sharpened, and don't get abused. Sometimes they get pressed into rolls they should not, like my skyline that I bent the tip on trying to cut something under stress that pinched and bent it.

Anyway, what kind of classifications do you put your knives into and why? I get the collector knives that are never used or sharpened to hold value, but beyond that, the differences between user/beater/high end/etc escape me.
 
To me, a "user" is quite simply a knife that I am going to use and not worry about scuffing up, scratching, etc. It's entirely possible that the knife might be used in ways other than intended, but if it's still seeing active use, it's not damaged to the point of compromising safe function. If used here on the Exchange to describe a for-sale knife, it implies that it's going to show wear and tear, as opposed to "like new" or some other description of a knife with no signs of wear and tear, although it might be simple markings from being carried.

A "beater" is one that I equate with "red headed stepchild" in that has been banged up beyond typical user status and has the scars to prove it. I personally have a Chinese lockback folder (Buck clone) received as a gift when I was a kid, and it has been subjected to all sorts of abuse over the past 25+ years. It will never pass for anything other than a knife that his seen a lot of use, some of it not necessarily appropriate for this type of knife.
 
User: cutting drywall, light prying, opening bottles, cutting concrete bags, getting it dirty, etc...

Beater: batoning, stabbing car doors, throwing it like a ninja, using it as a door stop (don't ask:rolleyes:) etc...

Safe queen: sits in a safe, never gets used, gets fondled once a week, gets shown on forums for "ooo's and ahh's", etc...

High end: (subjective on price) carried for light cutting tasks and doesn't see much use outside of cutting boxes or mail
 
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"Beater" is one used to the point of abuse, which you don't really care if it gets broken or lost.

I had cheapo Barlow-style folders in my toolbox and tacklebox that I did things with that I'd never do with my Delica or Dragonfly.
 
Door stop.....well, actually, I can see that one.

The safequeen I get. It is a protected investment for future sale. I guess I am not rough enough on knives to buy based on these categories like I see some mention. "I am going to buy this as a beater." I also see where folks buy to carry but then carry a user with them.

I am just curious what puts a particular knife in a given category for people and what actually makes that category what it is for them.

For example, sheet rock. I hate using a folder on that stuff. It is not because of harm to the knife, but the mess I have cleaning the dust out of the pivot so it works right as a smooth flipper again. Same with opening quickcrete. I just whack that with the side of the shovel because of trying to clean the mess out. I have done both with the folders I have and don't worry about harm, just easeir to clean up.

So do you buy a knife with the plan it will be a beater as opposed to a user?
 
Travis, it makes sense. I guess I need more knives to classify them this way.

Any excuse for more is good.

Even my little $19 skyline bothered me when I messed it up.
 
Well, I guess that depends on what you expect to use a knife for as part of your daily routine versus tasks that might be more specialized but perhaps less frequent. For instance, I usually don't expect to cut anything more than paper, cardboard or very rarely some sort of fabric with an EDC folder, but I have had to cut a few zip-ties and sometimes even cable (CAT5, video cable, etc.) at work. While some of these things can be hard on a knife, none constitute abuse. On the other hand, I have a couple of folders that I use around the house as well as outdoors in the garden, which can sometimes mean cutting roots (which can include some digging) or stripping small branches. A fixed blade would be more appropriate, and I'll usually grab one if I am planning to perform those tasks, but sometimes I just use the folder in my pocket. Those would classify as beater knives.

I think there is room for distinction between a user and a "carry" knife for some people. For instance, consider the "gentleman's folder" or "suit carry" knives people post about. For some people, a knife is a must-have item, but there are times when you may carry a knife that you don't really expect to use. If I'm going out, whether to the store or a restaurant or wherever, I carry a knife, but it's not usually my workplace EDC. If I don't really think I'm going to need a knife considering the occasion, I may carry one that I trust to be capable for any realistic needs but that is chosen for comfort and/or concealment (such as a defensive knife) as opposed to EDC considerations like grind, shape, edge retention, etc. Some knives get carried on special occasions due to sentimental value, or based on appearance. Personally, I don't feel the need for a big, beefy hard use tactical folder if I'm going out to dinner with friends or family, so I might opt for a little Victorinox . . . just to have a knife.

Again, a lot of it has to do with resale consideration. I have bought "user" knives before, but would probably stop short of buying a "beater" unless it was something I absolutely wanted and was going to continue using as a beater.
 
This makes sense. I tend to gravitate to one knife and use it for everything unless I have a specialty need. The rift has bumped my zt561 out of my pocket. They both got used for everything and carried everywhere in any dress level. Since I don't carry that one, I will likely sell it.

So I gguess the rift is my carry,user and beater since it stays in the pocket and gets used for everything. The only Ines I won't use or carry are a few given to me by people no longer with me. I would be sick if I lost my grandfather's knife, but he would laugh at the thought of not using it.
 
Here are three more classifications I've heard used: "Loaner," "Giveaway," and "Throwaway."

A "Loaner" is typically a well worn work knife that you are fine with loaning to a co-worker who asks, "Can I borrow a knife?" and then proceeds to use it as a prybar, open a can, or saw through a thick electrical cord (don't ask).

A "Giveaway" is a cheap but usable knife you buy specifically to hand out as an inexpensive gift. I recently got a deal on a dozen 1990 vintage Frost Cutlery knockoffs of the long discontinued Spyderco Merlin serrated hawkbill lockback. Guy was selling them on eBay for 7.99 each, but sold me the lot for only $60 shipped. Because a Byrd hawkbill goes for $25 and some people I don't want to spend $25 on.

A "Throwaway" is a term some of my less savory acquaintances used to use. As in an old 1980s Japanese boot knife with abalone scales and a regrind being referred to as "a really nice throwaway." :)
 
Tyr, I could stand a loaner I guess. I have a knife with a hole burned in the blade from exactly what you describe. This joker did not unplug the cord first. It was worth the damaged blade to see his face. Lol.

Problem is, I just tend to carry one knife. Pockets get full if I carry a loaner, a beater and a user.

I do keep a few others handy in the car, my emergency bag, desk drawer, etc.
 
Collector = Stay in the box/bag...brought out for pix.

Sunday/Special Occasion = Pristine examples of knives I like/collect, might carry once a year. Always backed up by an EDC/Beater/multitool in pack/bag/glovebox for emergencies.

EDC/User = Nicer used knives that I carry daily. Lightly used knives that are pleasant to look at but can still work.

Hard/rough use = similar to above knives that are in worse (maybe abused) shape and have no value beyond their utility in use. Grab one for expected dirty/heavy jobs at the farm.
 
I think we all know what these classifications mean, but I will bite. Firstly it is just a psychological phenomena where we become infatuated with something then attempt to rationalize and justify the obsession. I notice a lot of people are into knives more for collecting than actual use. You carried a knife for 4 years and there is hardly any blemishes on it? How does that work unless you work in an office opening letters?

With that being said I would consider a "user" a knife which you would deploy to any task that is reasonable for using a knife. I.E. cutting, shaving, scraping, chopping.

A beater would be a knife you use for tasks outside what is reasonable for a knife. Beating, prying, metal on metal, stabbing, applying heat, etc. I am new on here but I do have a few knives. I bought a leek a few years ago to carry around. The blade has little chips all over and the tip got broken off stabbing a brake clean can that needed to be discarded as it was empty. A hammer and chisel would have been more appropriate in that scenario, but I was not concerned as a leek is cheap and I suppose therefore a "beater."
 
I guess since I am not a collector as such, it just did not make much sense to me. I assumed a collector would gave using knives and those left tucked away unused. All the other categories blend together for me.

It is interesting how folks view them differently.

Part of the beauty of a k ice is its usefulness, so carrying a showpiece would mean using it in my mind. I have some antique hand tools that are real show pieces. Their beauty comes from their utility and the marks left from honest work. Even though I "collect" them, I absolutely will use them as well. They don't make moulding planes and jack planes much at all any longer. Those scars on them are what make them more valuable to me.

Anyway, I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder, and I am not trying to knock anyone for their ideas. I am just curious is all. I could not stand to have a safe full of guns, knives, or tools and not use them even if I knew I was knocking the value down.

Heck, even a first gen colt SAA or an original '73 needs to be shot if it is still able.
 
"Beater" used/cheap/unloved tool that if I loose it I won't cry. I have a "beater" truck that if it blows up today moving hay, I'll be pissed about loosing the hay. Had two kids try to buy the old F100, thought about it for a second. It's a "beater" not a throw away :) Now, if they wanted the old Bronco II, I would have paid them to take it.
 
Lol. 303 I have an old 150 that is like that, but I enjoy it more than my daily driver.

If it burned up with a roll of hay, I would lose more value from the hay. Still, for some reason, I still like it. I know the dents, the sound of the bad throwout bearing, what wire to wiggle when it acts like a dead battery...

It was bought to be used, not abused. Eventually, my daily driver will rotate to that position when the old green one dies and the new becomes less than reliable. But that is the thing, the new one will be used and eventually be in the same condition as the 1989.
 
Beater: usable for ANY task or to loan to knifeless knuckle heads
User: used for75% of daily tasks
Higher end: used for light non damaging tasks(till it moves to user column, which all do eventually)
 
All mine now fit in the user category proudly. I tried the safe queen thing and it drove me crazy. Especially when companies make knives that don't pass for new out of the box to begin with. So now if i wouldn't use it it gets flipped. And now I actually enjoy collecting.
 
I always carry a beater at work, it will inevitably get used for something it's not intended for. Usually a user as well. When not in my work clothes I'll carry a nicer looking user. All of my fixed blades are users, I did pick up a bk2 that just might get abused a little. I guess that's my take.
 
I think people have their own classifications and rate their knives differently. Here are my classifications:

Collectors: I have a lot of custom fixed blades that I've bought, without ever intending to use them.

User fixed blades: I have a few that I have carried while camping, but hardly used. These are utility knives such as a Cold Steel SRK.

EDC: I have various folders in the class of the Para2 bought for my EDC rotation. I carry and use them, but they don't get hard use. I don't have any of these that are safe queens but on rare occasions I've bought one and kept it unused until I decided if I wanted to carry it or flip it. My normal use doesn't dull a knife very fast.

Hard use: I have a few that I reserve for hard use. I'm sure that everybody defines hard use differently but in my case I use them when working around the house, things like opening boxes or breaking down boxes, occasional whittling on a piece of wood, that kind of thing. This use puts a little more stress on the edge and I can dull a knife pretty quickly sometimes.

Past EDC: I have some knives that I've used for EDC in the past but don't carry anymore because I've gotten lots of new EDC knives. Nothing wrong with any of them and occasionally I might carry one for nostalgia. They are good knives and not worth a lot of money to collectors so I keep them.

Junk: I have a few that I've found or people have given to me. I don't carry them or use them. Occasionally I'll fix one up and give it to a friend.
 
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