Becker Handle Project #1

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Good Day,

I have been playing with ideas about handle construction from a couple of different angles. Custom projects, playing with various knives, issues brought up on the Forums, and thoughts about what I might offer if I ever get to making knives.

So, when I received my Becker I was very interested to learn what it had to teach me. "Every knife has something to teach, and I must learn what I can from every knife"

And it has taught me, that shape is not enough to keep a secure grip. Swells and returns are very good, but not all of the equation.

So, my mind began to work over the problem of what can be done to get a good grip.

I define a grip that is better than the standard Becker grip as having the following qualities.

1) Swells and returns near their present form.

2) More texture.

I formulated a couple of solutions.

1) Wrap the original handle with paracord shell.

2) Take the handles off, and affix a Strider style cord wrap to the tang.

The second solution was thrown out as soon as I took the handles off, I found that the Strider wrap would not protect my fingers from impacts with the square edges of the forward and rear returns. So, I modified that plan to include adding an approximately 1/8" or greater piece of Micarta to each side of the handle, contour that to a degree, and then add the Strider wrap. This project is to come.

Today I set about idea one. First I wrapped the handle of my Machax with the paracord including the core strands. As I had thought, too thick. So, I removed the inner strands, and wrapped the handle with the paracord shell.

To accomplish this, I loosened the handles, and tucked one end of the paracord shell under the front return, right next to the fastener, and tightened the handles. I then wrapped the shell around the handle with no over-lap and no turns. I secured the end by passing it through the lanyard hole repeatedly, every few passes tucking the cord under the preceding passes to fix it in place through the tension of the cord.

The resulting package is an improvement, in my opinion.

1) The paracord shell makes for better traction.

2) The wrap covers over the fastener holes, so there should be a decrease in irritation from them. And less debri should make it's way into those holes now.

And I can see no downside. If the cord becomes excessively dirty or filled with organic matter, I can easily remove it, and replace it, the only odd bit of equipment being a 5/32nd inch allen wrench.

The sheath still fits, making this project reasonable for those who do not want to make semi-permanent changes to the existing package.

Note, given a desire to achieve more traction yet, one could slightly overlap the passes of paracord, or add half-turns on the sides.

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
MDP,
If you want more traction on the BK&T scales, why not try roughing them up with coarse sandpaper? I have heard of folks *lightly* sandblasting the scales also. Be sure to remove the scales first
wink.gif


Just curious, what type of cutting were you doing when you experienced a less than firm grip? Do you think that this loss of traction would be worth the potential discomfort of 'rough surface abrasion' during extended cutting/work sessions with the knife?

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
Will,

If you want more traction on the BK&T scales, why not try roughing them up with coarse sandpaper? I have heard of folks *lightly* sandblasting the scales also.

I may try that, though I want to play with my other ideas and exhaust my non-handle altering options.

just curious, what type of cutting were you doing when you experienced a less than firm grip?

Quite frankly, I do not see it as a regularly serious problem, but I can forsee situations where grip would be compromised, therefor the handle ideas

Do you think that this loss of traction would be worth the potential discomfort of 'rough surface abrasion' during extended cutting/work sessions with the knife?

There is a potential that more traction will create hot spots, but given just a little work, the hand can be accustomed to the new abrasion.


------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.

[This message has been edited by Marion David Poff (edited 12-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Marion David Poff (edited 12-06-2000).]
 
Will, this would not be a factory issue (time=$$$'s)but with my small hands I was thinking of removing the scales and sanding down the scale>tang area to remove approx. .125" per scale. replace scales and then maybe stippleing or shallow checkering with a thread comb...choose my handle pitch this way
biggrin.gif
.

The overall shape of the BK&T handles is great, just a wee bit fat for my hands and a slight "slippery" feel...maybe I just have to get used to it.
rolleyes.gif


------------------
Ron,
Bremerton, Washington
0071.gif


[This message has been edited by muzzleup (edited 12-05-2000).]
 
Jay Maines has one of my knives (Cold Steel ATC) that he is putting a new handle on for me. The project will basically consisist of duplicating the BK&T handles with some slight modifications. First, there will be a brass guard added. Also, there will be a brass bird's beak pommel. The guard and the pommel will be kept in accordance with the BK&T design except they will be slightly exxagerated, especially the beak on the pommel. The handle will be slightly less bulky than the BK&T because Wilson tennis racquet grip will be added later (I do this with most all my chopper knives). After the wrap is added, the handle should be approx. as bulky as the BK&T raw handles. I will post pictures and a review after he is finished.

Orion
 

^^^^


ME

TOO!


------------------
Ron,
Bremerton, Washington
0071.gif


[This message has been edited by muzzleup (edited 12-05-2000).]
 
Hey I just got my Machaxe and I love It, even the handle.

Just a thought..........
This might sound simple but what about using that textured marine tape that they put on boat floors and stairs?

One strip on the top of the handle and one on the underside should give more than enough traction.

------------------
Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
If you want the ultimate in high-traction grip: Take braided nylon string (cord that is only 1/16" diameter), rub it with rosen or beeswax, then wrap it around your handle. You can do a single layer or more complex random wrap. The small diameter cord gives you a surface with a lot more ridges. The rosen or beeswax gives you a very tacky grip.
 
Clay:
That non-skid you mention is EXTREMLY abrasive. I have used some of it on nylon rods for "traction" but after trying it, I quickly sewed a strip of leather around the non-skid and then bees waxed the leather. That non-skid would tear you hands up in no time!!! :<(

Marion:
1. I do not have a machax yet, just the Brute, Companion and the Mag. Camp. Still trying to decide if I want the Machax or wait for the Brush Hog.
2. I have not removed any of the scales yet since after "playing around" with these knives the handles don't seem quite as large as before...maybe just getting used to them but am still playing around with the idea of doing some "light,fine" checkering on one of my knives just to see how it feels.


------------------
Ron,
Bremerton, Washington
0071.gif


[This message has been edited by muzzleup (edited 12-06-2000).]
 
Marion :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">shape is not enough to keep a secure grip. Swells and returns are very good, but not all of the equation.</font>

To nitpick, an aggressive surface texture achives a secure grip in the same way that large shape changes in the handle do, just on a different scale. They allow you to exert forces directly in opposition to the force on the blade. The reason that they hurt more is that the forces are concentrated over a very small region and thus the pressure and extent of deformation of your skin are higher. However your descripion is much clearer than just saying that shape is all that is needed and extending shape to be the shape of the surface on a very small scale.

Will Fennell:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If you want more traction on the BK&T scales, why not try roughing them up with coarse sandpaper? </font>

That doesn't make that much of a difference. Consider the depth of the scratches that makes and how far apart they are. If you are just borderline then yes, but if you are having a significant security problem that is not going to fix it.

Marion, I did some compromised grip work on Tuesday and found that the Machax handle was unsecure. High impact chopping was not possible nor were full powered stabs or any kind of grip retention under a twisting motion on the blade. I considered a cord wrap but liked the general shape of the grip and so decided to texture the surface.

I first tried some rough sandpaper, 220 Diamond grit and then some 80 grit AO but that didn't make enough of a difference. I then used the side of the file on the Leatherman and that was *slightly* better, but then switched to the saw and scraped it across the surface going in 45 degrees rakes and overlapping. This gave a very secure feeling and I finished the grip with it. Be warned though it looks horrible, hillybilly grip 101.

I then repeated the compromised grip work and it was no problem. The grip now is as secure as the best that I have seen (Project and WB) and has a better shape for high impact work. My only concern is that the texture will not be durable and will wear down too quickly. Some work will tell that though fairly easily.

On the positive above the cord, the textured grip can not be as easily damaged, but the cord insulates from temperature, fills in the holes and may be more wear resistant. It would also look a lot better.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 12-07-2000).]
 
Cliff,
Could you describe what constitutes 'compromised grip testing'. I've tried the dishsoap testing, with stabs into trees and such, and found the full guard shape of the BK&T's to do quite well. Frankly, I'm not sure what it proved, but I wanted to see what folks were talking about here on the forums.

I have 'full powered chopped' RAILROAD TIES with the BRUTE and MACHAX, and not experienced what I would call anything like 'unsecure' grip.

We can take anything to the extreme.....sure we could wrap the tang with a chainsaw chain...it would give you a secure grip.....but would you want to cut up a couple of trees with it?

Just trying to see where this is going.....

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
Will :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">what constitutes 'compromised grip testing'.</font>

A solution of 2 cups of water + 2 tsp of some dish detergent. The type of detergent will obviously change the results somewhat, but I don't think its anything serious as the change in lubricity between detergents is far smaller than the difference between them and water. I have never seen a blade fail on one and pass on another. Most either do well or poorly, I have not seen a borderline one yet. It is possible though.

As for chopping, stabbing etc., results will vary from person to person depending on grip size as well the ratio of grip strength to thrusting/twisting/chopping strength. The larger this is the more secure the grip will be. Same kind of thing for the functional level of grip texture. How far you can go and still be workable depends on the durability of your hands and this will obviously vary from individual to individual.


Chopping straight into a piece of metal is pretty much the most stable thing you can do in terms of high impact work. At 90 degrees there is no component of force to twist the blade nor can the metal split ot otherwise cause the blade to glance.

To be specific about the effect of the above solution, I can work with the Machax handle covered in it, but it severely effects the force I can chop (or whatever) with and thus my workrate goes down rapidly. After I textured it I can go full force. In hindsight I should have done some work with the grip compromised so I would be able to better quantify the performance. Live and learn.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Frankly, I'm not sure what it proved</font>

Being able to working with a very compromised grip is important to some and not to others, as with pretty much every aspect of blade performance. The soap solution I described above nicely simulates the same level of security that handling various natural things can create such as seasoned wet and sappy wood. But there are lots of others, handling many types of vegetation which can be oily or waxy or just release a lot of liquid when cut, etc. .

-Cliff
 
In a previous post I noted :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">My only concern is that the texture will not be durable and will wear down too quickly. Some work will tell that though fairly easily.</font>

This has turned out to be the case. I didn't exactly monitor how much work I did until I noticed that the texture had worn down, which I now wish I had, but I didn't think it would degrade nearly as fast as it did. It wasn't a lot of work, the equivalent of about limbing out and chopping up up into 1' sections less than a half a dozen small trees (3-4" at base).

I think that when fresh the edges of the grooves were very sharp and thus the grip was very secure. With use these tended to round out. They are still clearly there unlike say Kraton nobs which visibly smooths out, but they don't offer near the same amount of grip as they did in the beginning. I think a deeper pattern actually cut into the grip instead of just scratching it like I did would be much more durable.

I think I might try a Strider like cord wrap, attached similar to how Marion has described. It should be interesting for high impact work.

-Cliff



[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 01-02-2001).]
 
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