Becker Knife and Tool, A User's Manual????

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Good Day,

I was wondering if there was anything written on the the myriad uses of the various tools in the Becker line? A sort of User's Manual.

And I know, one could say that, given a reasonable knowledge of the various tasks that one needs to accomplish, one could figure all this out. But, that would not take into account the intent of the designer. Much is made of 'killing' knives offered by Emerson and Hissatsu, as if those knives could not be used for mundane tasks such as cleaning your nails. And here, in the Becker line, we have a number of idiosyncratic and eclectic offerings that, apparently, have some very specific uses in mind. As I understand it, Ethan started this whole thing while designing the perfect knife for him, the result being the Machax.

My thought was that Jerry Fisk and Ethan Becker could list the tasks and conditions they had in mind while designing these knives.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
This is probably what I find most interesting to discuss with a knifemaker. I wish more would give some background on the blades they make.

-Cliff
 
Eye,
You're absolutely right. I think this is where most makers and companies miss the point
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Many folks don't have an appreciation or knowledge what their knife can do, how it came to be, etc. What is the best packaged knife or knives in the business nowadays? I'd say any Myerco Blackie Collins knife. Talk about fun paperwork to read. Talk about a line of knives I rather not have, too.

This is something I have been thinking about for a long time. On the rear occasion that a knife comes with paperwork or history I am much more excited about the knife.

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
JKM-Chai
 
MDP,
We have been talking about a more in-depth insert for the BK&T line of products,....but man what an undertaking! When you have such a diverse line of knves, there is ALOT of uses to cover. Or you could do a SEPARATE piece of literature for each,...again a large task. We have an outline that Ethan has worked up, and after the fall rush, we are going to look at 'fleshing it out'. It wuld be certainly a nce thing to include with each knife, and I know it would be a great satisfaction to Ethan, but when you start putting into print how to use a knife, you unfortunately have to get the lawyers involved
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We'll see what we can do....it will be fun anyway!

BTW, if you have any specific questions regarding the use of the products, feel free to ask them here! I'm working on getting Ethan to check in here more often[ he's still a little new to the 'net], so ya'll encourage him! As far as the Magnum Camp Knife and Jerry Fisk, well Jerry has never been accused of being shy! Ask away, I'll make sure somebody gets you an answer.


Once again, thanks for your interest!

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
unfortunately have to get the lawyers involved
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What do you mean "unfortunately," I think it is great news!!!
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How else are "we" attorneys going to afford more knives? If I made more money, I would already have a Talon, not to mention the upcoming "Bush Hog, etc."
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[This message has been edited by Donald (edited 11-07-2000).]
 
My thought was to create one online in this very thread.

Here are links to Ethan Becker's words about his knives.

11 posts in 6 threads.

09-01-1999 Answers to BK&T Questions http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000098.html

02-05-2000 Becker Machax or Brute? http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000195.html

10-31-2000 Becker Small Utility Knife??? http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000230.html

04-12-2000 Becker - A Busse Killer? http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000257.html

08-11-2000 CONTEST!!!!! Win a BK&T!!!!! http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000382.html

10-31-2000 Newest BK&T! The BUSH HOG!!!!! http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000429.html

BTW, the Blade article provides little in the way of details.

MDP

[This message has been edited by Marion David Poff (edited 11-07-2000).]
 
And with those comments about the use of the various Becker products, maybe we could hear about the other tasks that were done, especially those tasks where a small utility knife excels.

MDP
 
Great idea, Marion! I'd love to see a user manual for the Beckers. In the "Becker Machax or Brute?" thread that Marion referenced above, Ethan Becker says, "The ergonomics of the Machax's Kukri-derived blade make for incredible, versatile power in a compact package, great for chopping and splitting, a good drawknife, excellent froe..." and then later in the same thread, "...but for drowning stakes and such, and drawknife work on round stock like limbs and saplings for camp construction, it works great..." While I'm no stranger to chopping & splitting wood, I would love to hear from Ethan how his knives were designed to handle the full range of these tasks.

I mentioned in my performance comparison between a Machax & a village made khukuri that I don't think I was taking full advantage of the design features of the Machax. If you look closely at the "Machax tree" picture, I think you'll see what I mean. My hit is somewhat behind the tool's sweet spot, loosening a chip of wood less that half the width of the cut. As I said at the time, more practice with the Machax would probably have improved my initial chopping performance with it. Up-front guidance could have shortened the learning curve as well.

Chopping & splitting tasks aside, I'd appreciate some instruction into its use as a drawknife and froe. (I believe a froe is designed to split wood but I'm not sure.) Apart from making interesting & informative reading, IMO, an online user manual could also help market these fine tools by letting potential customers see the variety of tasks for which they are suited.

Thanks again, Camillus, for bringing back the BK&T line.
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Cheers,
Brian

He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
bcaffrey:

My hit is somewhat behind the tool's sweet spot, loosening a chip of wood less that half the width of the cut.
Click to expand...

When chopping with a traditional khukuri like from HI, after the impact the blade should slice into the wood. It should not be a dead stop like with an axe. You can feel this slice and without it the performance drops significantly. It is not small, it is like 50-100% or more, depends on the weight, curvature, balance, method etc. .

I have not used the Machax, and it is difficult to judge based on a picture and incomplete specs., but I would guess that you are hitting too far ahead on the blade for this slicing to happen. Of course the balance needs to be in the right spot and I don't know if is even possible with the Machax, with some "khukuri-like" blades it is not. Critical as well is that you use a significant amount of power on the follow through.

-Cliff
 
I have done some more work with my Machax. I have found what I "think" is the sweet spot (the sweetest I have found yet, anyway!) just behind the belly. It does perform considerably better than before with my limited experience but still not up to par with an HI 15" or especially the Cold Steel ATC. I have had no problem with binding when using the new "sweet spot" technique. From all the hype, I am assuming that I still do not know how to correctly use this thing. It is a "decent" chopper, but from what I have seen, there are better designs. I think Becker would do better to use a basic ATC pattern with a convex grind and a BK&T handle. That would be a mean S.O.B.!
I have also come to the conclusion that the BK&T handles are suited to my hands without gloves. When I am wearing gloves, the handle needs more of a "beak" on the butt end to stop slipping. This is hard on my little finger. I do not encounter this problem when I am not using gloves though and fortunately I have not encountered any blistering when working without gloves. I think the BK&T handles are maybe just a tad too "beefy" for working with heavy duty leather work gloves.
And Cliff- my girlfriend has ordered a Bush Hog for me but I will not get it until Christmas (bummer!) so my testing on that will have to wait a little while longer.

Peace-
Orion
 
Orion:

When I am wearing gloves, the handle needs more of a "beak" on the butt end to stop slipping. This is hard on my little finger.
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The handles look fairly insecure to me, is the surface textured at all? The shape looks decent but I wonder about direct retention. Have you done any work in damp weather on fresh cut resinous wood like Pine?

That usually very quickly gives your hands a nice coat of grease that makes heavy blade work very difficult with most knives. Some exceptions are Strider and Reeves blades and *hopefully* the new Busse Combat checkered grips.

my testing on that will have to wait a little while longer
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I look forward to it. I may pick up one, I will want and see what you have to say and there are a few other people I am waiting to hear from.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,
The BK&T handles were designed to give a secure, long use comfortable[read that no blisters] working type grip. This is best[in our opinion] achieved by having a grip that is secure through the use of contours, not abrasive texture. The scales DO have a 'frosted' finish, not a slick 'gloss' finish.

I have cut ALOT of resinous trees[ pine and cedar] without feeling I was gonna let the knife slip....if anything, the resin[sap] made things 'stickier'.

If an end user wishes a more aggressive texture on the scales, he can simply 'rough them up' with sand paper. I would strongly encouirage the customer to TRY the scales as they are. ALOT of thought and testing went into the BK&T grip. ALMOST everybody I've talked to[ you can always find variation when it comes to ergonomics] that has USED a BK&T in strenous work, likes the grip.

Try one, I think you'll like it.

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
Cliff-
The handles are very comfortable when used bare handed and, as a matter of fact, most of the work I have done with the Machax was with pine in damp conditions. I am used to wearing gloves when doing any kind of chopping due to my experience with blisters when using my CS and HI knives. I was using thick, heavy leather work gloves initially with the Machax because of my reluctance to get blisters and because I was also chopping heavy briar and thorn bushes (it makes it easier to grab the briars!). The gloves also keep the pine sap off my hands. The problem was that the gloves made the gripping too "beefy" and my hand would actually slip a little with every chop off of the butt. I finally got so fed up (and my pinky was so contused from trying to use it to hold my grip) that I removed the gloves. The handle performed beautifully then. No slipping and no blisters, even under damp conditions. Will gives a good description of the handle surface. I am a big fan of the BK&T handles. Actually, even though the CS ATC performs better than the Machax, I opt to use the Machax more lately because of the handle, sheath and coated blade of the Machax. I still say (are you listening Will ad Ethan?!?!?) a basic ATC type grind with a convex edge made to BK&T specs (steel, coating, handle, sheath) would be the BOMB!!!!
I think that even better than a manual would be a video tape actually demonstrating the uses of all the BK&T products with explanations of research & development and especially the techniques involved. If Cold Steel can do it, so can Camillus!!! Instead of demonstrating how much punishment the knives can take, demonstrate how much they can dish out!! I would definitely buy it!!

Peace-
Orion
 
Cliff, I've worked up quite a sweat both chopping & splitting wood with the Machax & at no point have I felt that my grip was being compromised at all. I found the handle to be both very comfortable & very secure.

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Cheers,
Brian

He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
Will :

the resin[sap] made things 'stickier'
Click to expand...

I should have clarified, most of the wood chopping I do is on dead wood, either last years cut, or the occasional windblown tree. In this state, once water hits it, the sap + bark turns into a slime that is very slippery, it is not at all like working with fresh cut wood. If there is not any such wood close by, work with your hand covered in animal fats, or oil or liquid soap.

While I do agree that in clean conditions, you can get good to strong security with shape alone, with a compromised grip (oiled or the like) I have never yet seen anything besides a very aggressive surface texture be secure. On some blades like the Busse Battle Mistress, the Talons will keep the blade locked in hand, but you will beat the pinky off your self from hard contacts and the functionality is way down as the blade will freely rotate and slip up and down during hard impacts and twists.

While sandpaper will make a handle more secure, it is not extensive enough for security in those conditions with the handles I have used. However it may be that the ergonomics of the Becker grips may give them the additional security. In any case I ordered a Machax awhile ago, to be clear Will, your frank and open manner sealed the deal for me.

Orion and Brian, thanks for the additional info. I agree about the video. It seems to me that it would be a very strong promotional tool.

-Cliff

 
Eye,
Sorry for the delay...I have been so busy with work and family stuff I haven't been around the forums much.

To be honest, I only used the Campanion once on a hike and I was initially impressed. I thought the handle was a bit big and felt a little hand fatigue when I chopped down a small dead tree. The black coat held up OK and the knife is sharp & easy to touch up. The sheath system holds well but there is some bouncing around in there. Hey...with the price of this knife I am not complaining.

I hate saying this but....I may have a bit too many knives to really enjoy them. Ouch! That hurt saying that and NO, I am not giving any away....lol.

Will, overall I am impressed with what you guys at Camillus are doing. They're fortunate to have you onboard, too.

Sincerely,

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
JKM-Chai
 
I usually carry an axe for chopping wood for fires or pegs and poles as I don't usually get too far from the vehicle, my feet are just about shot. I use a SAK for little bitty stuff. I use my Campanion for everything in between. I like it very much but I do have to say that I like the handles on my original Campanion better.
I have a Brute also but I haven't had the opportunity to play with it yet.

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Although it does not mindfully keep guard in the small mountain fields, the scarecrow does not stand in vain
Bukkoku
 
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