Becker Knife and Tool, A User's Manual????

I've found both the Companion and the Magnum Camp extremely useful lateley while bird/rabbit hunting. Either of these knives are light enough in the field that they won't weigh you down. When you have a game coat filled with shotgun shells, your lunch, and a water bottle and a few other items, not to mention the side-by-side cradled in your arms, it can be a long day of hiking through heavy cover.

Anyway, I move through a lot of briars and thick brush and both the Companion and MC are quick to the hand from the great kydex sheaths and will quickly remove the briars stuck to the pants or the small twigs about to poke your eye out. I never used to carry a big blade while hunting and now I can't imagine why. Probably because the only big knife I owned for years was a heavy-duty machete which, imo, is too much to carry on bird hunts. But the medium sizes of the Companion and MC make them ideal! Perfect for cutting yourself free when you are snarled up in the brush but not so big as to be banging into your knee all day.

I have to admit that while bird hunting yesterday, the MC did fail me. I was walking along and I could feel a briar wrap around my leg, but I kept on going, thinking my brush pants would deflect it. But it just dug in harder and harder as I strained against it. Then I glanced down and realized it was barbed wired wrapped around my leg, not a briar. I quickly dispatched it wit my leatherman.
smile.gif
I really wasn't interested in testing the chopping ability of the MC on barbed wire.
smile.gif


Happy huntng!


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
I love the idea of getting a video tape done.

A good using cutting tool has two elements: The tool itself, and the technique which should be used to optimize its performance. We often fall down on the later. I suspect that this is because most makers and users have no idea how to use their knives, and the knife designs are simply intended to be visually distinctive to help sell the piece.

A maker that is actually willing to demonstrate how the tool should be used, and how the tool should perform, would stand head and shoulders above the rest.

 
Folks
I have used three of the Becker knives in REAL LIFE SITUATIONS.
The brute performed fantastic in every test I felt it was designed for.
The Magnum Camp worked as a great all around knife for the chores needed from kitchen duties, chopping, clearing ect. It will second for most uses. It is an all around tool for the camp situation.
The new BUSH HOG limbed trees chopped wood was light and strong.

I feel the beckers are the best value for the dollar on the market today for those who want real steel and a great handle on there knives. They are made in the USA .

I carry an Acrlite along for small chores.



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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
NEW WEB SITE TAKE A LOOK!!!!!!!!!
New projects and pics to look at !!!!

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 11-13-2000).]
 
Mr. Poff and others.
Glad you like the Magnum Camp. I can explain some of the design and the whyfores as well as usage. May do this a bit at a time like an installment plan if would premit me.
I would like to work with the handle tonight.
As with anything there are many varibles and these can certainly change the outcome. And, y'all will have to pardon my spelling. I was sick the day we had spelling in grammar school.

Big knives and small work differently of course. So, just shrinking a big knife down to a small size and expect it to do a small knife chore does not always work. The leverage and design must work for the intended purpose.

The start of any slash/chop cut starts best with the little finger or back side of the bottom of the hand. That is you will start your momentum with that part of the hand. If the handle does not have a "downward" [I call this the hook] turn on the handle at the back it will not develop as much swing or develop as much precussion at the point of impact. Without that downward turn the knife will certaintly still work well it just will not work as well as a chopper. The "hook" does not have to be large just enough to get a grip so to speak and catch you hand from slipping in the swing. This can be accomplished by several design features. The "hook" or bottom tail of the Becker knives gives you a more than standard place to hook that finger and start your swing. Ethan is smarter than he looks. He did good with the design of the handle. Now once you start your swing your kinda roll it forward through the rest of your fingers so to speak and pop your wrist about the time you strike your object. By popping your wrist and not striking stiff armed you can actually double your speed of swing and that is most important.

It is not weight that cuts many times but speed and leverage. 12-13 years Jim Crowell and I played with designs, blade thickness and all types of variables. At that time, when I was younger and had a full head of hair, I used a knife with total weight of 10 ounces and cut 8 free hanging one inch ropes in one swing. So, it was not weight but leverage and speed. All of that cut started with the little finger and the bottom "hook". Now I know my terminolgy is not correct but hope you can get the gist of it. Jim could cut more than I could. He was bigger and uglier of course but he was also faster.

The blade/handle relation is important as well. The straighter the handle with the blade the more speed and the more the handle drops down from the blade the more power. Take for instance some of Ethans knives have a good bit of drop. Not much on thrust but lots of power in the chop. That is what these particular knives were designed to do and they do it well. The handle has a hook and the blade drops down.
The Magnum is not designed to out chop one of these bemoths. It is designed to do medium chopping and still be able to do thrusting/slicing that is required of an overall large knife. Yes you can pop off one inch ropes with this knife because that is still below medium duty.

If any of you have any questions about what we have talked about so far let me know. I will be more than happy to do so. Hey, this is fun. If there are no questions we'll go forward with the blade in a day or two.


 
fisk:

By popping your wrist and not striking stiff armed you can actually double your speed of swing and that is most important.
Click to expand...

Jerry Hossom has also described the same technique and I agree on light knives it can increase performance significantly. By snapping your wrist you torque the blade about the center of your hand as you describe and becuase you can do this very fast you can add a significant rotational velocity to the blade, and if your swing without the wrist snap is a straight elbow swing, then I would agree that yes, the increase could easily be about 2x. It is very significant any immediately noticable to anyone who has never done it before.

However there are other chopping methods that give better results with different blade style. Heavy power chopping can be done by pivioting at the hip, bending at the waist and driving with the shoulder. The amount of power here is easily in excess of 10x an elbow swing. But, in order to actually make use of this power you need a blade heavy enough so that it doesn't reach the maximum velocity at which you can move. If it does then your power will be wasted as you can't accelerate it any more than it is already moving. As well this type of power will be wasted significantly if there is no follow through to direct the blade after it has encountered the wood. Wrist snaps could be done with this as well to drive the power up even further, but you would want a fairly strong wrist to absorb the impact during the follow through.

Why 3/16" stock for the Magnum Camp? I have lately being using a Henckels large Chef's blade which is very similar to the Magnum Camp but of a much thinner stock. On binding foods (vegetables mainly) it easily outcuts thicker blades and it can handle light brush fine. I have done some light wood chopping with it and binding can be a problem, but it is only a real problem on fairly large wood, significantly beyond brush class scrub. The real problem would be that any hard knot would maul the edge as it is very thin and the steel is 420 class. However I have used high end steels (3V) with similar geometries on hard woods with no problems.

-Cliff
 
I don't know the precise reasons for the thickness choice of the Magnum Camp, but it is very well-balanced knife (in my hands), that has enough heft for chopping (I find that weight helps with a shorter blade, while speed is helpful with a longer blade), but is light enough for prolonged use and easy carry. Those factors, I would assume, influence the thickness of the steel.
 
Cliff,
The point of Mr Fisk's technique description is that the MAGNUM CAMP KNIFE is a relatively light knife. Therefore, that is the technique he recommends for it.

Jerry,
Thanks for coming by and sharing your VAST experience with us. You are providing the kind of information that the members of this forum have asked for, and I know that we are eager to hear more from you.

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
Mr Fisk, this is stuff I like to see, please post more! Your description of the handle fits what I believe to be the best on large knives, and took me years to learn and I try to perfect on every big knife I make. Thanks!

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Will :

the MAGNUM CAMP KNIFE is a relatively light knife. Therefore, that is the technique he recommends for it.
Click to expand...

It isn't as simple as weight. There are other issues such as the range of motion, hardness of the target and just the ability of the individual. You can use fast whipping chops with heavy blades and slower more driven chops with light blades and get better performance in certain situations.

For example chopping in low light you don't want a large range of motion as you need to be careful of others and you want the blade in front of you at all times. Wrist snaps give a lot of cutting ability for a small range of motion and are very useful here. Similar if you are in tight spaces, or excessively closed in vegetation large range of motion swings might simply not be possible.

On soft targets, excessive power on a follow through make you do more work regaining control of the blade after it has sheared though the target. Similar to how in boxing it is much more fatiguing to throw a punch and not have it land. Again, wrist snaps are the optimal method here. On a related issue, deflections can also be very dangerous if the blade could impact off multiple light targets (limbing) and a heavy follow through is not sensible at all regardless of blade type.

However, on very hard targets, like very dense woods, fast whipping chops may not have the necessary follow through ability to allow for deep penetration so getting more power behind them regardless of the blade weight might be a good idea.

You can of course combine a wrist snap with even the heaviest power chop and this will significantly increase power just as described in the above, all that is necessary is that your wrist be strong enough to absorb the shock. This is an individal thing and its success depends on your upper body strength as compared to your wrist stability.

-Cliff
 
Cliff
Ooohweeeee! How you do go on! You have got to be either an engineer or have a lot of time on your hand.

What I described was the handle itself and its usage and that part of you that connected with the handle.

If you wish to elaborate futher usage you are right and wrong.
Yes, you are right about using the sholder and hips.
However I recommend this on all cuts not just some cuts. Whether it is cutting a wood 2x4 in half or cutting a free hanging cigarette paper. You just gage and control your follow through. This works on heavy knives and light knives. Pop your wrist with all cuts with all knives as much as possible. Again just guage your follow through. I've seen Moran cut a heavy sapped pine wood 2x4 in half with only 5 blows with a 3/16" thick blade and him being 70 years old when he did it. He used the same style while cutting a piece of paper a bit later. The smallest knife I have cut the free hanging one inch rope with is a 4 inch blade. Same cutting style as the larger knives. That knife only weighed 4 ounces or so.
Yes a lot depends upon the person using the knife. It also matters who is behind the gun while trying to shoot a bulls eye at a given distance. It is not the guns fault but the style used. Not everyone can use a knife with the same end result. This can be physcial or medical or many other reasons such as inexperince.
The Magnum was designed to be a overall usage knife that was a bit lighter than some of the other Beckers. It does this. When we get through discussing this part I will talk about the blade.
jf
 
fisk:

Pop your wrist with all cuts with all knives as much as possible.
Click to expand...

Yes, my point was simply that for me, with the techniques I use, this is none when chopping certain types of materials. The reason being that my follow through is that heavy that my wrist can't take the strain unless I lock it before the swing. I have tried faster swings with more snap, they just don't work as well as the technique I described above for heavy thick targets. As well, when your blades at in the 4-5 lbs range, wrist snaps are not that trivial. It isn't a disagreement with your statement, simply an extension to a particular situation. I am snapping my wrist as much as possible, just what is possible is nothing.

I should clarify, this isn't something I have come up with, I didn't invent any of it. The swing that I currenty use evolved from a discussion with several Bando people a few years ago. They tend to use lighter blades than I do but the grip is the same. The swing is differnet though, I swing from a heavier power base with little or no recovery which would be horrible in a fight. I have also learned a significant amount from friends with boxing experience, mostly on how to get behind the swing and drive with more power.

Concerning the handle, I would be interested to know you opinion on grip security and how to obtain it. Do you feel that shape alone can give enough function or does an abrasive surface texture need to be present as well.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 11-17-2000).]
 
Cliff
I personally prefer the lighter knives and rely on speed and leverage to do the cutting. When I first started serious in the business I worked with Bagwell a lot. At that time a bowie was not good unless the spine was 3/8"-1/2" thickness. These were heavy knives. Over time and lots of testing I got down to 1/4" spine thickness. You can get so heavy that you have an axe on a stick and lose some effectivness as far as I am concerned.

Now back to the cutting swings etc. I have never had martial arts training but have noticed over the years that most of the cuts are some of the same moves as good martial arts works. For instance. Reggie Barker from LA that has done so well in our cutting competetions here. Reggie is average size and weight. However all of the contestants must measure up to Reggie to win because of his style. He is excellent with his form. No formal training he just listened well and watched close when he first came to the shop.

I agree that a 5 pound knife would be hard to pop the wrist on each swing. Practice. When I worked for the railroad the track crew swinging the hammer poped and rolled their wrist when hammering spikes. They would get after it.

I still prefer the lighter knives and use the leverage design of the knife/handle.

As to your question will the handle design itself work or will texture do it.
Along with the "hook" or bottom pull I like to have a handle with side "hook" or "pull" if possible. This can be accomplished 2-3 ways. The handle will work well without texture. Texture is just a bonus as long as it is not rough. Smooth texture has to be controled more than rough so it is a bit harder to do in a lot of cases. The Becker line is a top line texture in my opinion. Still good on the hands but gives good grip. Wish I could have had a wife like that.
jf
 
fisk:

I agree that a 5 pound knife would be hard to pop the wrist on each swing. Practice.
Click to expand...

I have been fairly seriously now for a couple of years. I have come a fair ways, about a 100% increase I would estimate, but am not quite there yet on heavy wrist snaps. Maybe next year. I have a friend coming back probably early next year who is planning to start a small custom shop forging large blades. He has offered to show me the ropes so to speak and I assume I will be doing much of the grunt work for awhile which will no doubt exercise my wrists.

I still prefer the lighter knives and use the leverage design of the knife/handle.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons that I like thicker ground blades is that the wood around here is fairly soft, Pine for example. Thin blades bind readily in it and I can get a more fluid performance out of a thicker blade even if it has less penetration per swing because there is no need for the jerk to clear it out of the wood.

The most extreme example of this was with a large 1/8" machete, 18", that I was using to clear some 4" deadfall. I did a high velocity chop and the blade sank in past its 2" width and was held so fast I could not pull it out and had to cut it free with a smaller knife. When I am using such blades on similar woods I have to use a much lower effort on the swings to keep the penetration down. While they can get more speed the excessive binding makes me in general prefer a thicker blade.

To this extent, I am currently discussing a blade with custom maker, full convex grind from 1/4" stock, bowie style, which I hope will be an improvement over the current blade I use which is flat ground from the same stock. The main advantage I am hoping for is that the reduction in binding may make my swing frequency increase and that the extra mass may help as well to overcome the lower penetration due to the thicker profile.

It will be interesting in any case to do some work with the blades and see how they perform.

Concering the side "hook" or pull, I don't quite understand what you are describing, unless it is a swell or curvature that fits the "cup" of your palm made during a grip. Will this hold even during slippery grip conditions, or do you feel that a knife simply shouldn't be used then anyway?

-Cliff
 
The Becker line of knives are by far the best buys for the $$ ....that is, is you plan to buy a REAL user.

My most used knife, hands down, is a Blackjack made BKT BRUTE. And I do say "knife". It easily handles small chores as well as doubling for an axe. I like it better than the MACHAX model for that reason. I am sure the Camillus model is its equal...probably better since it has a real sheath!

I have a very original MACHAX....wood handles and a BROMMELAND brown leather sheath. These were some of the first made and they chop like a full size axe. A buddy of mine carried one on active duty all over the world and the only trouble he had with it was protecting it from theft. It had been taken all over the world and the wood grips stood up to all enviroments. His had the EAGLE cordura sheath.

And finally, the MAGNUM CAMP. What a great blade! I have both the Camillus and the Blackjack version. I do have to give the BJ Magnum the honors here. It is a little thicker steel (although stainless)...but because of the polished finish, it is alot more efficient in slicing. Also, the BJ model is without a doubt, the SHARPEST knife I have ever seen...either custom or production!! It literally scares me!
 
The Blackjack BKT Magnum Camp was/is the sharpest big knife I have ever handled.

It was actually too sharp...the 440C blade can not take any kind of hard use compared to the new ones in Carbon.

I recieved one of the first 10 Blackjack magnum Camps back in the day.

The first time I tried to do the "Coke Can test", ya know, cut the top off an empty coke can, I chipped and rolled the edge.

Although the Camillus/Becker may be somewhat thinner (are you sure? Original was spec'd for .188, new ones are the same) it is thin enough at the edge withought being wafer thin.(and correspondingly weak as a result).

I sure do wish it was polished though, maybe Camillus will do a run? Huh Will, huh?
I am sure that will drive the price up a bit.


When I handled the First magnum camp knife, I promptly cut myself,chipped the edge and tore-up the POS sheath. (Not in that order) I was persona-non-grata at Blackjack for a while because I begged them to correct the edge geometry (they finally did), but only after a few hundred knives had been sold and many were returned. The Rowe designed sheath was also neat on the original, but BJK executed it rather poorly. The Snap that holds the pin-loc in place tends to come off when you least expect it......

I may take some sand paper and a lot of elbw grease and polish the coating off my Camillus/BKT Magnum Camp....smooth knives do perform better in most cases, but coating definately helps them stay pretty longer.

Definately a tradeoff.

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"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb
 
Cliff
The reason your machete stuck was because of its grind. The sides are paralle with only the edge being ground, so sure it will stick.
The convex grind will help. Personally I use a flat ground with convex edge.
The side "hook" is a swell on the side at the back or even a tapered handle with the cross section of the back being wider than the guard area. Either gives you a grip or purchase during the swing.
There are times when there is no choice but to use the knife during wet or slippery condiditons. The larger knives should be designed to account for those conditions are the design is missing something and you did not get your moneys worth.

Anthony
Yes, the BLJack had sever problems. Of the two they sent me off of the line the first one broke in half and the second one chipped out badly. I called and screamed bloody murder. I asked and begged for changes even though they was not paying me anything I did not want them to go out with my name in that condition. No such luck.
I have tested the Camillus version a lot. Much better steel and heat treating. I even set up one of the cutting competetions using the Camillus Becker as the trial knife. Lots of the custom pieces did not do what the Camillus version had done. When Camillus worked up the proto ones I had a couple of things I wanted to tweak and they did it right then. Sure is fun working with them.

 
The Blade
The Blade is taken from a Searles style Bowie knife. This a blade style that has been around several hundred years cecause it works. The swedged top actually makes it a bit stronger by increasing the surface area of the spine. No I do not have scientfic data to call how much it is just one of them things I can feel. The swedged clip also makes it do the deep cuts better by "crowning" off the abrupt edges of the spine of a knife.
If any of you including Cliff has any questions about the blade just jump right in there. Kinda like my old Grandpa used to say, 'The faint of heart never has sex with a wild cat".
So, I will be more than happy to help with any questions.
 
Although the Camillus/Becker may be somewhat thinner (are you sure? Original was spec'd for .188, new ones are the same) it is thin enough at the edge withought being wafer thin.(and correspondingly weak as a result).

I would have to get out the calipers and measure it....but the BJ Magnum Camp (at least the one that I own) is a little thicker and has a stouter feel. I have thoroughly used my BJ Magnum and I have no complaints at all about its performance. This could be because of the varying QC at BJ thru the years. A close look at the BJ reveals that it has a slight warp to one side....I am not sure if I did that or it came that way.

The Camillus version seems to be a little thinner at the spine than the BJ. It's original edge was VERY sharp and it slices with great efficiency except that the rough finish hinders it a bit. The Camillus has a vastly superior sheath....the blade rattles in it a bit...but I can live with that considering such a large, sharp blade rides so close to my leg!!

I have greater confidence in the steel in the Camillus....I always have preferred carbons over stainless. But like I previously stated, I cannot complain at all about my BJ Magnum (maybe I got a good one)

Picture a Camillus Magnum with a polished blade and a G-10 or Micarta grip! WHOA!
 
Mr. Fisk,
Just want to publicly thank you for designing such a wonderful knife. I really enjoy using the Magnum Camp, which has now become a part of my regular hunting gear. Great knife, great design, and a great price.

Thanks again,



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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
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