Beckers and Prying? (Others for prying?)

Jeff Clark said:
I'd consider softening the TAC Tool since it is up around 58 RC. Pull the handles off and bake at 550 degrees for an hour. It is well shaped for the job, but a little overly hard.
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You mentioned this in greater detail on the "other" thread. I'm fascinated and amazed. You can DO THAT ? :eek:

Approximately how much will this 550/60min process soften the blade?
Any effect on the black krinkle coating?
Will I need to support it in any way so the wires don't leave stripes? Cookie sheet?

To cool, do I just turn the oven off and leave it in there to cool very slowly or take it out and put it on top of the stove to cool a little more quickly? (Or should I toss it in a bathtub full of ice water? :D )
 
Basically, Full, Jeff just called your arguement in the nicest possible way...LOL

heating the knife like that will remove the temper of the knife and turn it into a prybar.

As for Lone Hunter, no one is saying that you can't use a knife to pry... you can do what you want to, with whatever you want to... just don't expect the rest of the reasonable world to call you a genius for it.
 
Before you follow my suggestion about baking your blade let me temper my advice (boy that's a cute pun :p ). Since 0170-6C is similar to O1 in composition you should not bake it above 450 (probably experiment with one hour cycles in the 400 to 425 degree range). Test the edge with a file as you go and stop when the edge gets somewhat easy to cut with a file.

(By the way, I make no guarantees about this).
 
Jeff Clark said:
Before you follow my suggestion about baking your blade let me temper my advice (boy that's a cute pun :p ). Since 0170-6C is similar to O1 in composition you should not bake it above 450 (probably experiment with one hour cycles in the 400 to 425 degree range). Test the edge with a file as you go and stop when the edge gets somewhat easy to cut with a file.

(By the way, I make no guarantees about this).
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Thanks. I'll try the experiment.
You've done this before? ;)
This isn't an April Fool's joke or anything, right? :D

Use a cookie sheet or put it right on the wire rack?
Does cool-down speed matter?
 
...And MAKE SURE that you don't take it out the oven with your bare hands!.:D.

...And while you're at it, you might as well bake a cake at the same time so's not to waste energy.:D.
 
This is basic oven-based tempering. Be sure to preheat the oven. You want uniform heating so that you don't get warping. On the bare rack is better than on a cookie sheet. Best is if you can support the blade edge-up instead of laying flat side down. You can bend some coat hanger wire to make a cradle. No I haven't retempered a blade, but I have tempered home made blades in the oven before.
 
An additional note here, test hardness before you try to fix something that may not be a problem. Camillus generally advertises that their 0170-6C is hardened up above 58 RC, but they might make the TAC Tool softer without advertising the fact. Try a file on the edge before you start. If it is easy to file the edge they have already taken care of the issue.
 
glockman99 said:
...And MAKE SURE that you don't take it out the oven with your bare hands!.:D.

...And while you're at it, you might as well bake a cake at the same time so's not to waste energy.:D.
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Actually, I was thinking about laying some cheese-sticks across the blade to make a Strider-like tiger-stripe pattern! :D

JC,
I think it would be pretty easy to rig something so that it's edge up.
Don't get too excited. I don't even have one yet. I've got a TacTool coming and I'm working on a deal for a Brute. You only live an hour away from me so if it blows up I'm coming to see you so we can go oven shopping! :D
 
Hi, fulloflead. Just a couple suggestions if you decide to try doing some kitchen oven heat treat ...

Get a decent thermometer; kitchen ovens, being the precision instruments that they are :), can be off by 50-75°F or more.

Put some thermal mass in there to stabilize the temperature. Something like an anvil or two would be good.

Although, like Jeff says, you don't want to put the blade on a baking pan, I would put something like a baking pan or layer of aluminum foil on the second rack underneath the blade you're tempering. This will prevent the blade from receiving direct radiation from the heating element when the oven cycles on.

Don't be surprised if the epoxy finish doesn't hold up too well.

Finally, you might want to run all this by Will and Ethan on the Camillus forum. Should be able to pin down the temperature range you'll want to be working with a little more precisely, and let you know what to expect with the epoxy finish. Plus, I've wondered if Camillus might not have made some changes since Cliff's test of the BK9 to make it less brittle. Can't hurt to ask.
 
Can't hurt ... tho' I'm wondering what the Camillus people are going to think about all us crazy folks out here in Colorado, re-heat treating knives in our kitchen ovens. Maybe it's the thin air ...
 
ColoradoDave said:
Can't hurt ... tho' I'm wondering what the Camillus people are going to think about all us crazy folks out here in Colorado, re-heat treating knives in our kitchen ovens. Maybe it's the thin air ...
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LOL! Or the static electricity build up from the dry air and all those darned styrofoam peanuts everyone keeps sending us! :D
(Too bad that thread was lost forever in the server trauma. :( )
 
Mutt, No one has called me a genius for prying your right.A few have simply smiled and thanked me,that was enough.I don't think its wrong or dumb if someone wants a knife with features that I don't. Pretty simple concept really,differant people with differant wants and needs means differant knives.I figure they know whats best for themselves. I would like others to extend the courtesy.Thats it in a nutshell.

Maybe its due to my work and the fact that I see Mr.Murpy every day,I know plans go astray,things,change and its impossible to always have the right tool.

There are times at work I'm away from the rig,times at home I'm in running shorts and tank tops.One thing I can have 24/7 is a stout knife,I like the opptions,it can shave hair and pry some.And yes sometimes its not the right tool,just the only one I got.

2 years back a car with 2 teens wrapped itself around a phone poll,right where the trail I run crosses the road.The right tool was $20,000
worth of hydraulic cutters,spreaders and rams.But I only have a folder when I run.They both died.I wish I had the right tool.All I can do is pick the right knife for me and hope it works for whatever life throws my way,and its been a wild ride so far. :)
 
Man, I've seen a strider destroyed beyond repair with three or four hacks by a skinny chinese kid trying to hack through a little bit of concrete...

I think mick replaced it though... with a stern warning that he wasn't gonna do it again...

And Lone Hunter, I did not intend to be mean spirited when I went off against "fulloflead" or you for your advocacy of prying... What gets me is that people go into the world unprepared, underprepared, or absolutely deluded as to the effectiveness of their knife simply because they have a knife they deem is the holy grail of chop/pry/dig cutlery.

Of course, there are certain circumstances that makes a reasonable man think... "well, I realize that my knife is expensive and not designed for this, but I shall sacrifice it in order to preserve life, limb or much greater property".
 
FoL:
You mentioned the Falkniven A1 earlier in this thread. Just to let you know I bought my A1 with the intention of using it to pry "stuff" should the need arise, and have successfully done so. So far I've used it to pry open a rotten tree stump (6' by about 2.0' diam.), and to pry a flattened truck tire back on a rim. None the worse for wear. This knife performed admirably! I find that most often I'm the limiting factor (muscle strength), not the A1. I doubt I've even come close to taxing the limits of this knife. I also own a Ontario RTAK and a Becker BK7, but would never expect either of those two knives to hold up under what I've put my A1 through, or pried through.
TT2Toes
 
TT2Toes said:
FoL:
You mentioned the Falkniven A1 earlier in this thread. Just to let you know I bought my A1 with the intention of using it to pry "stuff" should the need arise, and have successfully done so. So far I've used it to pry open a rotten tree stump (6' by about 2.0' diam.), and to pry a flattened truck tire back on a rim. None the worse for wear. This knife performed admirably! I find that most often I'm the limiting factor (muscle strength), not the A1. I doubt I've even come close to taxing the limits of this knife. I also own a Ontario RTAK and a Becker BK7, but would never expect either of those two knives to hold up under what I've put my A1 through, or pried through.
TT2Toes
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Interesting. If it weren't for the blasted rubber handle! The Marbles Trailmaker is very similar with a stacked leather handle. I just got a Cold Steel Trailmaster CHEAP! I figure, for the money I saved, I can have it rehandled.
 
Tempering 100F higher will drop the hardness about 3 HRc points of course you don't know what the original tempering temperature is !But that will reduce brittleness but also strength.I'd leave it alone but if you do it just throw it into a preheated oven for 1-2 hours, simple as that ...On the other hand this morning , in a catalog ,I saw a very nice Titanium pry bar. It's half the weight of steel and handy for you pry guys !!
 
MelancholyMutt said:
Man, I've seen a strider destroyed beyond repair with three or four hacks by a skinny chinese kid trying to hack through a little bit of concrete...

I think mick replaced it though... with a stern warning that he wasn't gonna do it again....
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Ah -- but this post is about prying, and I was being specific in my model recommendations.

:)

Maybe the guy had poor technique? Why hack when you can chip?

Strider's aren't wonder-tools, they're just good tools -- but abused, any tool can fail, and it looks like this person failed to use the knife to the best of its abilities against a known opponent.

:)

I think that the idea for fulloflead here is to point him to a specific tool, a knife that is by design intended for use as a prying tool, not to generalize based on brand nor maker names.

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
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