Beginner's Start-up kit, $500 budget

Pete84

Pete84

Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
168
Good evening, all!

I've been poking around the Knife Maker's forum for a little while now, largely admiring the craftsmanship of others' knives and the painstaking effort that has gone into their production. Ever since my early teens, I've always wanted to make my own knives and I'm finally ready to take my first steps in that direction.

Please do forgive me if this information is posted someplace, but I haven't had much luck finding it in a centralized location... What would you say is an appropriate kit to start me off? I'm allocating about $500 to start with for the purchase of tools needed.

I'm waiting on several books to arrive and am hoping those, along with the advice of makers on this forum, will help me get going in the most efficient way possible.

Thank you in advance for your help and, again, I apologize if I'm repeating any previous threads. :)
 
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/848601-Setting-up-shop-with-a-1000


The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v14

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings & the Loveless book. Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now, you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info.
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to get that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for knifemaking.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...84&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/...s_Brochure.pdf
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop...ues-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf
 
Duffy - Good Try, but some links are missing.
Try quoting the post before copying.


If you look into this info, there is some that applies to you.


The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V15

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings & the Loveless book. Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.

Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

1095 is a good low cost steel with great results, but needs very good temperature control and proper fast quench oil – If you need more info, read Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel

If you want to heat treat yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel, 1070, 1080, 1084.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for knifemaking.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://www.atlasknife.com

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309



Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here


V15 Added Craftsman speed modification link
 
$500 shop, eh? I have to asnwer your question with a question. I know, I hate when people do that to me. However, we need more info before people can start with suggestions.
Do you plan to forge and HT yourself, or only do stock removal and send out for HT?
Mechanical grinding or files and paper?

As a relative beginner, here's what I'd recommend, having recently spent the money.
$200 2x72 grinder conversion. It's ugly, but the absolute cheapest 2x72 you can make. I have a link to the thread of my website.
-or-
$200 2x42 grinder If you don't want to mess with building the conversion, no problem. Less powerful and smaller belts, but a lot of knives are made with these.
$50 drill press from Harbor Freight. Sure, you'll want a nicer one someday, but even the $50 cheapo is better than not having one.
$80 portable band saw from Harbor Freight. Beats the heck out of a hack saw. Search for portaband mounting for ways to mount these.
$25 files. Big files, little files, cheap set of needle files, you'll need them.
$15-50 1/16" - 1/4" cobalt drill bit set on eBay. Even the cheapest cobalt bits will outperform the crappy TiN coated bits from HF when working with steel
$10 cutting oil (makes bits and saw blades last much longer)
$25 bench vise
$65 belts for your grinder (This will get you 10 zirconia belts and a 50 pack of 400 grit paper from barbkat.com)
$25 steel (should be about enough to get 4' of 1084 from Aldo. Enough for 4-5 knives)

Right at $500! You're still going to need handle materials, but that should get you started.

Crap, I forgot safety gear. Replace the bench vise with a $5 C-clamp from HF and buy a $25 3M respirator to get you started. Don't even bother with paper masks.
 
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I would provide an alternate plan. 1. forget the $5 C clamp. get something that can take a lot of pressure. you are going to need it. 2. downgrade to the craftsman 2x42 grinder. it is cheap and will get you going if you aren't making a gazillion knives a year. it is on sale for 140 pretty regularly. 2. drop the band saw and go for an angle grinder. they are really, really nice to have around the house, as well as being good for cutting the metal. that will be about 50. as far as the files go, if you have the grinder, I think that one 20 dollar 14 inch file from home depot or lowes would work becuase you have the rough side and the finishing side. A set of round files would also be nice, but not necessary. take the money that you have shaved off those three areas and put together a small forge. put together a basic venturi burner, get a freon tank, 2 linear foot or ceramic wool, 5# of satanite, and you are good to go. another way to do it is to get a burner like the bernzomatic BZ8250HT from home depot or lowes, and use that instead of a venturi burner hooked up to a propane tank. i have a setup like this, and i was able to get a 7 inch blade up to nonmagnetic with very little trouble. a little blower and it would be great.
 
Yes, I meant the 2x42 grinder, not the 1x42. Originally, I couldn't find the 2x42 on Sears.com. Here's the link for it. $140 sounds about right.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...Sanders&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

Shop around at garage sales. They are a great place to find old tools like hammers, vises, anvils, etc.
If you go the forge route, don't forget an anvil. Cheapest is a 5-gallon bucket, bag of quikrete, and a 16lb. head from a sledge hammer. Mix the quikrete and pour in the bucket. Remove the sledge hammer head from the handle and get it mounted about halfway in the concrete so one of the faces is sticking out halfway.
 
thegeek574 said:
2. drop the band saw and go for an angle grinder.
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree, but that is REALLY bad advice. If you want an angle grinder, go to garage sales advertising tools and pick one up for $5, but don't try to make knives with them. Band saw with bimetallic blades are a MUCH better investment. I use mine for cutting the blade blanks, handle parts, and other things (metal, wood, plastic, antler, ivory, etc.). Band saw is the best investment in tools I made since I started making knives.
 
I highly recommend a 2x42 craftsman grinder, and a decent drill press. The 2x42 will run around $160 at Sears. I started with a piece of crap drill press I got on Ebay for $45, it wasn't worth it. Spend some money on a fairly decent drill press. I picked up a drill press at Sears for $150 on sale (which is still a low end drill press but it works ok). IMO get a vacuum of some sort. I got a 3.5hp shop vac to start for $60, its underpowered for what I need it to do, but its a start. I'd work around from these. Then clamps, epoxy, belts, hacksaw with good metal cutting blades (I use Lenox).

But this is a really loaded question. What will work for me might not for you. My first grinder was a 1/4hp motor with a cheap grinding wheel.

Hit the yard sales, craigslist, and ebay for some deals on tools.

But really, just start doing it! You will realize what you do and don't as you go. No matter how much you try to get up front to "get started" you will find you "need" more.
 
tryppyr, You are probably right. I have profiled all my knives with a angle grinder and a file, but a bandsaw would be nice.
 
My experience with a cutoff wheel ended with me purchasing a band saw from HF. When actually working on the knives, the grinder is the most used, with drill press and band saw tied for second. However, I've taken the band saw home and used it on projects a lot. What I'm saying is that the band saw gets far more use for non knife projects than any of the other tools.
 
Do you plan to forge and HT yourself, or only do stock removal and send out for HT?
Mechanical grinding or files and paper?
Click to expand...

I'm planning to do stock removal and send out for HT. I will probably be doing mostly mechanical grinding with some use of files and paper for detail work. This is all largely theoretical, mind you, as I've yet to attempt any of this.
 
I highly recommend a 2x42 craftsman grinder, and a decent drill press. The 2x42 will run around $160 at Sears.
Click to expand...

Definitely planning to pick one of these up, thanks! :)

I will also get a bandsaw, a cheap angle grinder, files, and mucho sandpaper, in all likelihood. I have a bench grinder with several wheels which may be useful for profiling as well.

I don't think I'll be attempting to forge or HT my own blades, at least not for a while. So, I'll be gearing my purchases toward effective stock removal as much as I can.
 
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On a related topic, do you think attempting a chef's knife as my first blade would be too ambitious? Or should I stick to a smaller, more standard style knife to start off?
 
I did a 12 overall drop point for my first knife. it is ugly, but it is coming together. I think a chef knife would be great except for the fact that steel that thin might be hard for a first knife. however, a paring knife might be a good option.....

BTW, I think it is just my situation in which an angle grinder. it gets used for everything around here, from profiling to cutting steel cable. it may be less useful in a shop, but it is great around a farm.
as far as the disks go, cutoff wheel for basic cutting, and then a grinding wheel for shaping. you have to be very conservative to make sure that you do not take little chunks out of the area you want to keep intact.
 
Pete84 said:
On a related topic, do you think attempting a chef's knife as my first blade would be too ambitious? Or should I stick to a smaller, more standard style knife to start off?
Click to expand...

Pete,

I'm not too much farther along than you are, I just finished off my first knife last week. I made a small hunter with a thin convex blade. If I was going to do my first knife again I would have used some thicker blade stock. I started with some .120" 440c. After smoothing both sides out it came out closer to 3/32". I would go thicker, at least to around 5/32". I think its a little easier to try to grind a thicker blade than a really thin one.
 
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I think a chef knife would be great except for the fact that steel that thin might be hard for a first knife.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. It would probably be right around 1/8" thick at the spine, which is just a matter of preference based on the other chef's knives I own. I may try something like a Mora-style for my first blade, just to get acquainted with my equipment.

...But the chef's blade is definitely something I want to do as I gain more experience. I'm thinking 8-9" blade, 1/8" thickness at spine, maybe a chisel grind (left handed, since I'm a leftie), and a nice O-1 or 1095 stock? Idk.... all theory and speculation at this point.
 
jaymeister99 said:
I would go thicker, at least to around 5/16th. I think its a little easier to try to grind a thicker blade than a really thin one.
Click to expand...

For a general use knife, I'd definitely agree with you. I also really like the idea of a convex grind, which I may try on my first blade. I'm a little torn.
 
My recommendation would be to do something small like the MDTTs that are on the for sale: fixed blade section right now. they are small, simple, and will let you get the basics of knifemaking without having to worry too much about looks. besides, they are just awesome.
 
What about this then? A Sears 2X42 a Habour Freight drill press and band saw, NO angle grinder, some very good belts from Tru Grit, a few pieces of mild steel to practicle on. Frank
 
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